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Everyones taste and expectation are different, I play my '97 GE right next to my Hutch L5 (both acoustics) I was actually hoping one was better so I could sell the other. Mabey I got lucky but they are absolutely on the same very high level of craftsmanship and finish, they sound completely different, I truly could not say one was better. I pinch myself everytime I pick them up, Im in a have to part with situation and have already parted with some that were very dear to me Ive been putting off the inevitable because they are both irreplaceable to me. I havent played a dozen of anything but happy I got one of each that to my ear sound as good as anything Ive heard or played. I think its luck of the draw to some extent.
Hey, by the way, why dont one of you guys grab that S16575 I have for sale here its a 16" GE! really sort of (no clouds) and it will help me mabey keep one or two others, just sayin
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03-20-2026 07:02 PM
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i just bought 2 guitars, otherwise I’d have had to consider it. She’s a beaut!
Originally Posted by Rickco
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with all the posts (including mine) debating the various qualities of Heritage vs Gibson, Guild etc. The point got lost, GORGEOUS JS! and great to hear its still hanging in with a well experienced owner, congratulations. This thread has shown completely the various variety of preferences and bias based on experience and the ear of the beholder. I do notice that our most informed contributors, Mark C, Gary Z etc luthiers never comment when in fact they are the only ones qualified to make assessments of build quality and tone development, my take is the Brands are being compared when its obvious the difference isnt H vs G its guitar to guitar, player to player. I tried to bond with several L5s that were other players guitars and their favorite's, just couldnt make it work, then I found the one and it was keep forever (if possible). My last jab, Listen to any JD video, every guitar we discuss and others sound fantastic in his hands even the impossibly cheap lam Korean Epi to the 175 to the...shall I go on, like my early teacher said "the guitar dont play you man, you play the guitar"
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I owned a '69-ish Gib Johnny, probably one of the last Pre-Norlins with an orange label, possibly even a transitional piece, and a Heritage Johnny, at the same time. The Gib neck was horribly unstable, but it could have been from neglect by the original owner. It was left strung up in a closet for a long time when the guy left for Nam, then he never even got it out again when he returned. (Sad story.) The Heritage Johnny had one of the nicest, smoothest, fastest archtop necks I had ever played.
Then when I bought a used Heritage 555, it had a sideways banana bow to the point where the high E string along the middle section of the neck was over the binding. And when I sent it to them to look at it to see if they could do amything, maybe even a new neck. They said very rudely that I didn't I know what I was talking about and there was nothing wrong with it. I swore off Heritage that day.
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Thank you buddy. I appreciate that, a lot!
Joe D
Originally Posted by Rickco
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Agreed. Joe D is one of the treasures of this forum, and does have that rare ability to make soulful music on any instrument that is lucky enough to find its way into his hands.
That reminds me of an old song, which I’ll paraphrase here: It ain’t what you play, it’s the way that you play it, and that’s what gets results!
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There is so much that could be said, almost all has been said though.
There is in radiology a concept of "an area of romance". This means there is a vagueness that opens up the imagination as to what one sees. This is very true with guitars and mates.
Why am I drawn to Gibson and Heritage? Growing up and living in Kalamazoo is a big factor. But some of my favorites are Thorntons and G&Ls.
Being a connoisseur can be a curse, where perfection is the enemy of "good enough". I've owned some great guitars. One is a 1920s L-5 I got from a studio musician from Chess Records. It checked all the boxes in tone but was a bitch to play due to feedback and a baseball bat sized neck. Not worth it.
I like the size and overall feel of the Heritage archtops. I know them well and know the source very well. The Johnny Smith means something to me emotionally because I listened to him a lot as a teen, did his lesson books, had a teacher with the Gibson JS, and wanted such a guitar when I "grew up". I've had the variations of the JS and truly like the Heritage version. At least let me say I'm happy with it. After years I haven't outgrown it.
I have found that it is important to bond to an instrument, just like a spouse. You're better in the long run. It will save you grief and money plus add happiness when you stop looking for something "better".
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As a teacher advised, “Find an instrument that appeals to you and learn how to play it.”
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I totally agree that Heritage guitars are great. I have an early JS from 1990, and while the top is carved a bit thick, it just has a beautiful mid-range bark that I love. I have played Gibsons, Guilds and Epiphones, all of which sound good, but my JS sits easily in the great archtop "pantheon". And I have played many other Heritage archtops, nearly all of which I liked. There were variations between them, but for me, that is a mark of being handmade. Originally Posted by Rickco
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Well apparently there are different likes and dislikes amongst many of us here. Glad the Heritage Owners are pleased with their instruments.
Im just a Ford type of guy I guess,lol!
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Why on earth would you say that? There are many people on this forum who are extremely experienced in arch top and other guitars, even some experienced repair people, and they are well able to give informed opinions on both the quality of a guitar's build and the qualities of its sound. Not all aspects of a guitar are subjective. IMHO. YMMV. Originally Posted by Rickco
I mean, otherwise why are we on here?
Not speaking one way or the other on the quality of Heritage guitars BTW.Last edited by bluejaybill; 03-22-2026 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Im merely pointing out that to really know how an archtop works you would not only have to make one you would have to make "several" and note how the various process effect tone. experienced luthiers like MC and GZ are in that rare position, players that have had the same luthier make several guitars would have some insight, most of us are going by our comparatively limited experiences.
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Building an archtop guitar is both an Art and a Science and it takes time to get through the various things to get to a solid knowledge of what is happening. With that come differences in opinions and approaches to building a carved top acoustic archtop. To some extend it requires the builder to be at least a reasonable guitarist. Most of the builders I know play pretty well but not as such one of the great players in history.
When you add everything up the mix is very different which is why we players tend to like some guitars that others we are not so impressed with. The ear is personal to us all and that decides what we like. The guitar still has to play and feel good in the hands. Again, this is individual because some player like really low action and others like it high and want some resistance. If you take any well sounding archtop guitar and raise or lower the action that changes the sound and the dynamics even. Guitar makers do not know everything just because they can build a guitar and have make many. Like players they learn over time new things and new techniques and ideas.
To so extent I might even argue that someone who focuses only on repair and restoration of great guitars might be the handiest ones around. They have to work with the structure they are given while a new build is simply clean and easy. It can explain why some makers do not want to do repair work because the approach is different and I say actually more or a pain in the butt with potential problems. I will add this just as an aside.
I thought the late Jimmy Foster was the finest actual guitarist who played for a living but also made guitars. A close second was Bill Barker a chord melody master and even a singer. I know Jimmy D'Acquisto played but I am not sure how good of player he was but as far as building he was far more experienced and advanced that anyone in his time. To me Jimmy was an artist at making guitars because he got past the point of need to rely on science. Mark Campellone strikes me in the same mode. He has done so much that he does not need to consult the science because it has become automatic.
I might make an analogy to playing the guitar that fits. Joe Pass could sit in with a group start playing any standard tune like Just Friends. If they just started the tune on a count down and played it in an unusual key like Gb, Joe would not need to think much at all he would just play intuitively. He could explain the academics behind it all, but he would just smoke it Gb.
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Well Leo Fender nor Ted McCarty played guitar? That worked out really well for us,Lol!
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I fully agree with deacon Mark's comments. Mark Campellone, for example, certainly makes wonderful instruments and my understanding is that he is a very competent player who simply decided being a luthier had more appeal. I think Mr Campellone would also agree that not every guitar comes out exactly as intended because there are intangible factors like how the wood ages, how the hide glue sets and ages, atmospheric conditions and perhaps just an element of luck in getting the thickness of the carve just perfectly right. Still, a master luthier like him is always likely to create a beautiful guitar with a beautiful sound because he has mastered the artistic and scientific aspects even if all the other intangible factors cannot be fully controlled.
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I have nothing but respect for you, deacon you have had far more experience than I. However Im still standing by my earlier post, the great player know about sound and what has worked, but that does not enable them to diagnose the reasons, MC etc can repeatedly make a guitar to maximize the tone etc requirements of the player because he understands how it works, he also does repairs and restorations successfully for the same reason. I have a great (and quite well known) tech who does all my setups, refrets, etc but would not be the guy I would have make me an archtop guitar. Great sounding guitars are made by knowledgeable luthiers to have a certain quality of sound ,I dont know but I bet any of our vaunted luthiers here can hear the difference between a Gibson and Benedetto and can tell you why, as opposed to players who would only know what the luthier told them. Saying "braces" isnt the same as carving braces. We prefer one luthier over the other because they impart something that is personal to you and they have the knowledge to build it that way, that only comes with having made enough guitars to refine things the rest of us dont even hear but make up the whole.
now im getting back to my Peter Kreeft book so I can philosophie about other things Im not qualified to...(deacon will get it)
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I am not too qualified about many things at all. Peter had a moment of grace from the Holy Spirit and proceeded, at least that is what I think. In my case the Lord has to keep reminding me that I am not qualified for anything unless He says so. My own thought is that I have been able to learn and play and be around a lot of jazz guitar. It has been a wonderful experience that I treasure deeply at levels way beyond words as such. I keep going back to my book...............the one in my head that says I spend too much time on mammon. I get all worked up seeing another nice Super 400 or D'angelico and going over it with a fine-tooth comb. In the back of my mind the book says......love God and Neighbor and nothing really about jazz guitar. Originally Posted by Rickco
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