Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

**David B** · 09-10-2018, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by rlrhett

OK, I had to go home this afternoon and thought I would just shoot the "before" video starting on the scales. After all it all about one take and no editing if I'm going to be honest about it. It is really hard to post a raw video with flubs and all!!! Makes me cringe to watch it, but that is the point.

Hi Rlrhett,
Some friendly feedback: The scales should be played as eighth notes, not triplets.

**grahambop** · 09-10-2018, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Here is my take on this. This is a way of playing I7 chord into VI7 chord that addresses a few ways the harmony of bars 7 and 8 of blues is played:
| I7 | VI7 |
| I7 | I7 VI7|
| I7 | iii (minor or half diminished) VI7 |
or even
| iii (minor or half diminished) | VI7 |

Playing the way BH shows addresses all of them reasonably well. Like I said this is my take on it, others may disagree.

Also my guess is he’s trying to do it with as few scales as possible. So doesn’t want to add an A7 scale just for one bar if there’s a simpler way largely based on the scales already in use.

**joe2758** · 09-10-2018, 06:23 PM

Thanks for kicking off the vids!

well I did my session and ended up right where I said, 170 bpm.

I did rhythm changes and blues in Bb in the 5th position area, and just stuck with that for the duration. started at 100 bpm and worked up by 10s.

For the one position, however, I practiced the outlines 2 ways: all highest register scales available in that position, and then all lowest possible scales available in that position. Some of course, only had 1 option.

Speed has never really been my thing, I think I might be disappointed if I keep my goal at 200 bpm...not sure.

well back to practice my other shit, later!

**rlrhett** · 09-10-2018, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by David B

Hi Rlrhett,
Some friendly feedback: The scales should be played as eighth notes, not triplets.

Does it matter? Not snark, serious question. I can try to do it both ways, but I am concurrently practicing Mike Longo's hemiola and rhythm. Seemed like a natural way to phrase it.

**Tal_175** · 09-10-2018, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by rlrhett

Does it matter? Not snark, serious question. I can try to do it both ways, but I am concurrently practicing Mike Longo's hemiola and rhythm. Seemed like a natural way to phrase it.

One consideration is, when you ascend in 8ths chord tones land on downbeats. Playing triplets this way doesn't get the chord tones on down beats consistently.
I think playing in triplets is a nice variation (among many). But it may not be the best way to hear the changes through the scales.

**christianm77** · 09-10-2018, 06:38 PM

You should play them as 8th notes.

Triplets are embellishments in the line, not the main substance of the line.

There are obviously counter examples in real music, but that's how we always practice this stuff...

(If we are doing the Barry thing - you can practice whatever you want of course ;-))

**Petimar** · 09-10-2018, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Here is my take on this. This is a way of playing I7 chord into VI7 chord that addresses a few ways the harmony of bars 7 and 8 of blues is played:
| I7 | VI7 |
| I7 | I7 VI7|
| I7 | iii (minor or half diminished) VI7 |
or even
| iii (minor or half diminished) | VI7 |

Playing the way BH shows addresses all of them reasonably well. Like I said this is my take on it, others may disagree.

Thanks Tal, makes perfect sense to me. One beauty of Barry's system is how much one thing can cover.

And we need a Barry Harris "post icon"

**rlrhett** · 09-10-2018, 11:54 PM

OK, straight 8ths. I want to be consistent. This is my "before" video. I hope in my "after" video unicorns will weep at the sheer beauty, and and no less than Barry Harris himself will call me up to congratulate me.

BTW, I'm thinking this thread should be moved to the "Getting Started" section. No? Maybe Dirk could move it?

**christianm77** · 09-11-2018, 05:25 AM

I actually think that’s a pretty nice swing feel.

Swing feel is a flavour. When you practice those ML exercises you are locking into these other rhythms, so the hemiola flavour and the upbeats etc come through in the line.

All you have to do it not try to swing and it happens.

Trying to swing is the worse thing anyone can do if they want to swing!

**joe2758** · 09-11-2018, 06:59 PM

good start, Rhett. Man, I'd love to try out one your guitars someday (you make them right?)

Today I did Rhythm changes and Blues in G in 4th-ish position, both the upper register and lower as before. I can baareelly scrape by at 180 bpm. started at 100 bpm and worked up by 10s again

**matt.guitarteacher** · 09-11-2018, 08:47 PM

Man, that major seventh!

I can play that blues at about 200 pretty well if I don't have to get that thing. I can play it WITH it, if I'm consciously thinking pretty hard about it. Have to practice learning to hear that one naturally...

I can almost do better on the RC, because it doesn't that "form" wrinkle, at least for me. Anyway...

**joe2758** · 09-11-2018, 09:28 PM

well you got a month to iron it out Matt.. youll definitely get it eapecially since you’re already hitting your speed goal. Once I reach 200 i think ill start taking it up through the positions withtout stopping if i can (or in your case weird christian octave things KIDDING)

**joe2758** · 09-11-2018, 09:35 PM

matt, does 1 of the maj scales get you more than the other in the blues? i.e the turnaround to 2 vs the turnaround to 1

**matt.guitarteacher** · 09-11-2018, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

matt, does 1 of the maj scales get you more than the other in the blues? i.e the turnaround to 2 or the turnaround to 1

Not necessarily. Just if I stop consciously thinking about it.

Just need to practice it. Too many pretty ballads and chord melody I guess.

**tamirgal** · 09-11-2018, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by joe2758

well you got a month to iron it out Matt.. youll definitely get it eapecially since you’re already hitting your speed goal. Once I reach 200 i think ill start taking it up through the positions withtout stopping if i can (or in your case weird christian octave things KIDDING)

Is 200 bpm a common goal or is it a personal thing?
I’d love to participate, but I won’t be near a guitar for several weeks. Will join when I’m back practicing again. Till then, will continue to transcribe Barry

**joe2758** · 09-12-2018, 09:14 AM

just a coincidence that matt and i both picked 200 as our speed goal

**joe2758** · 09-12-2018, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by tamirgal

Is 200 bpm a common goal or is it a personal thing?
I’d love to participate, but I won’t be near a guitar for several weeks. Will join when I’m back practicing again. Till then, will continue to transcribe Barry

what are you talking about you transcribe bebop solos without an instrument in your hands!?!

**tamirgal** · 09-12-2018, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

what are you talking about you transcribe bebop solos without an instrument in your hands!?!

Luckily Transcribe! has a handy piano keyboard to get the task done

**joe2758** · 09-12-2018, 09:31 AM

well you carry on and i will continue to enjoy the fruits of your labor

**christianm77** · 09-12-2018, 02:47 PM

Play it on your instrument you plonker

**joe2758** · 09-12-2018, 06:32 PM

dear diary,

today i worked on rhythm changes and blues in F in 5th-ish position, upper and lower register, starting at 100 bpm. I actually did 180 way more solid than last time, and 190 doesn't seem far out of reach. I tried 200 for kicks and that's still pretty fast-- I can barely play one scale that fast.

**joe2758** · 09-12-2018, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Play it on your instrument you plonker

he said he won't be near a guitar for several weeks, might as well transcribe. I'm sure he learns them on guitar

**Petimar** · 09-12-2018, 10:24 PM

Today I got through both blues and Rhythm in all keys, so I started doing the same with drop 2 chord shapes. Made it about 1/2 way around the circle. This could really help to learn to improv chord melody off the cuff. Also looked ahead and started learning 5 4 3 2.

Man, this stuff is fun

**wzpgsr** · 09-12-2018, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Play it on your instrument you plonker

I’ll refrain from practicing for a couple of days if you promise to call me plonker.

**christianm77** · 09-13-2018, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by joe2758

he said he won't be near a guitar for several weeks, might as well transcribe. I'm sure he learns them on guitar

Cool.

I’ve done transcriptions away from my instrument just checking to see if I wrote down the phrases right. It’s good ear training if you don’t lean on the piano or guitar to get every note.