Left Hand Guitar Technique?

[Goofsus4]

I'm with Gramps...thumb in classical position gives you much better reach and flexibility. Using your thumb is for punk rockers...

Naw, it probably doesn't matter since in jazz you often are playing a variety of styles in the same song - fingerstyle, strumming, picking, etc. It's probably good to be versatile at using your thumb when needed. I can't do it though because I've always used classical technique, and now it's actually painful if I try to use my thumb to fret or mute, unless it's just brushing it lightly against the 6th string. But a full on Hendrix style wrapover is out of the question!

[CraigB]

By this do you mean when your doing the 'correct default Classical' position?

Not at all. Just that you'll feel it if you're hurting yourself. I have no default position besides comfortable and effective for what I'm playing. Mostly I watch how people I admire play and then adopt some of theirs as it fits my anatomy.

[elixzer]

Not at all. Just that you'll feel it if you're hurting yourself. I have no default position besides comfortable and effective for what I'm playing. Mostly I watch how people I admire play and then adopt some of theirs as it fits my anatomy.

"fits my anatomy" YES--everyone's hands are different aren't they?

Naw, it probably doesn't matter since in jazz you often are playing a variety of styles in the same song - fingerstyle, strumming, picking, etc. It's probably good to be versatile at using your thumb when needed. I can't do it though because I've always used classical technique, and now it's actually painful if I try to use my thumb to fret or mute, unless it's just brushing it lightly against the 6th string. But a full on Hendrix style wrapover is out of the question!

DID first using the Classical technique hurt?

[Goofsus4]

"fits my anatomy" YES--everyone's hands are different aren't they?



DID first using the Classical technique hurt?

I started from day one using "classical" technique - thumb always stays on back of the neck. It was later, when I began learning barre chords and noticed that rock and blues guitarists used their thumbs, and reading advice to "use your thumb to fret the bass" that I tried using my thumb. But it was painful so I just didn't bother trying to learn to do it. I just don't play voicings that require me to fret anything with my thumb. It's hardly a problem. There are so many ways to voice a chord that I've never found it to be a problem. I think, though, that using the thumb would be very helpful for muting strings when hard strumming chords like you do in rock. But now that I've ended up focused on jazz and solo guitar, I really don't care much about that stuff anymore.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

If you are doing CM stuff, there are definitely times when thumbing bass notes comes in handy. You can skip it, but that either means giving up on the bass note or jumping to another position or fingering.

And what about "the other thumb trick"? Reaching around to fret treble notes:

CMaj7(add #11):

[CHORD]

||---|-T-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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[/CHORD]

I suppose you could do that with a Van Eps barre, but it's easier with a thumb for me.

[elixzer]

If you are doing CM stuff, there are definitely times when thumbing bass notes comes in handy. You can skip it, but that either means giving up on the bass note or jumping to another position or fingering.

And what about "the other thumb trick"? Reaching around to fret treble notes:

CMaj7(add #11):

[chord]

||---|-T-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]

I suppose you could do that with a Van Eps barre, but it's easier with a thumb for me.

you aint only got big love handles

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

you aint only got big love handles

I'm thinking of getting that made into a bumper sticker

Note: I'm reaching under the neck with my thumb, not over the top! You end up using the side of the thumb and your other fingers naturally go all fingertippy. This doesn't require big hands, just a sense of mischief.

[oilywrag]

This doesn't require big hands, just a sense of mischief.

Plus a good dose of knowing what you are doing .

Elixzer,when it comes to putting your body into new positions,anything can hurt a little,soreness does not indicate that you are doing something wrong.If you have any concerns about it you will have to find a good teacher.

Tom

[gordon]

If you are doing CM stuff, there are definitely times when thumbing bass notes comes in handy. You can skip it, but that either means giving up on the bass note or jumping to another position or fingering.

And what about "the other thumb trick"? Reaching around to fret treble notes:

CMaj7(add #11):

[CHORD]

||---|-T-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]

I suppose you could do that with a Van Eps barre, but it's easier with a thumb for me.

at first it was like oh, internet right
then i tried it, and it felt like doors opening
you are seriously ill Mister thx for the new tool

[JohnW400]

Double Bass players do that all the time. It gives them a 5th finger, especially when they play up high (or low depeding on how you look at it)

[JohnRoss]

I started from day one using "classical" technique - thumb always stays on back of the neck.

That isn't quite it, either. That way you tend to end up using your thumb to exercise pressure, which it shouldn't do in classical technique, even if it is required in rock and blues (about which I won't say more, pleading ignorance). In classical technique, when you exercise pressure with your LH fingers, it isn't countered (to stop the guitar wobbling hopelessly out of control) by your thumb but by your posture, that's what that silly-looking position with the footstool is for: your chest and thigh then act as a fulcrum so it's actually the weight of your right arm that pushes against your left hand. You should be able to play quite comforably without your left thumb touching the neck at all. The thumb may rest there, but it shouldn't be fixed.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Double Bass players do that all the time. It gives them a 5th finger, especially when they play up high (or low depeding on how you look at it)

True, i never thought of that, but when they lean over and play high up the neck, there's nowhere for their thumb to go, behind the neck!

[gordon]

So how are beginners going to learn to do bar chords? Or anything else involving hitherto unused muscles?

i'm didn't mean it won't happen, but that it should be worked against all the time
for me there is nothing worst than putting unnecessary tension on the left hand, and this should be fixed right at the beginning

elixer, another thing to consider if you've been playing for more than a year, is to get your instrument properly setup if you haven't already. doing CM stuff requires it, so that your plank becomes most easy to play, me thinks

[fumblefingers]

Good idea.

Different instruments, with different weights, different balance, different force required, in different directions... And don't adopt the classical posture unless you are playing a classical instrument, if you use it for a dreadnought, you might do yourself an injury.

So how are beginners going to learn to do bar chords? Or anything else involving hitherto unused muscles?

You said it already, a teacher. A suitable teacher for both the style and the instrument you want to learn.

the combination of the angle of the guitar, your back position, arm position and hand position is the point, not the type of guitar. i play a 17-inch archtop and a classical, both in classic position with a footstool.

however, they are both about the same size so both accomodate this position. (word to the wise - playing anything other than a classical while using a foot stool looks... less than hip)

so play your non-classical strapped to get the same neck angle, or very nearly so.even when sitting down.

or do like i do if you want (if the guitar size and shape are accomodating) but only at home.

[JohnW400]

True, i never thought of that, but when they lean over and play high up the neck, there's nowhere for their thumb to go, behind the neck!

Yes , exactly.

Also on your chord with the T. For a great ending chord put your RH index finger on A and strum with your RH 3rd finger. YOu now have A C G B E F# or even A C G B D F#. It's a nice mi13 voicing I borrowed from a Bill Evans piano book.


[chord]

||---|-T-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-i-|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

the combination of the angle of the guitar, your back position, arm position and hand position is the point, not the type of guitar. i play a 17-inch archtop and a classical, both in classic position with a footstool.

however, they are both about the same size so both accomodate this position. (word to the wise - playing anything other than a classical while using a foot stool looks... less than hip)

??? A classical body is small compared to a big-arse archtop. When I put the classical on my left leg it feels fine, but when I put my archtop on my left leg the big 17" lower bout means I have to spread my legs more. So playing sitting down, with classical techinique, works better with smaller guitars, for me -- like Les Pauls.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Yes , exactly.

Also on your chord with the T. For a great ending chord put your RH index finger on A and strum with your RH 3rd finger. YOu now have A C G B E F# or even A C G B D F#. It's a nice mi13 voicing I borrowed from a Bill Evans piano book.


[chord]

||---|-T-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-i-|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]

Gonna have to try that tonight!

[fumblefingers]

??? A classical body is small compared to a big-arse archtop. When I put the classical on my left leg it feels fine, but when I put my archtop on my left leg the big 17" lower bout means I have to spread my legs more. So playing sitting down, with classical techinique, works better with smaller guitars, for me -- like Les Pauls.

i haven't noticed that but you're probably right. do you play a concert sized classical? i do, plus 17x3 archtops.

anyway, i suppose that a 16 inch archtop might be closer to the same feel.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I have a cheap classical, not sure about the size, and a 17" x 3+" archtop. I'll have to measure the lower bout of the classical tonight.

[fumblefingers]

"3+", eh?

i had a feelin.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

3 3/8". The classical guitar is small - a little over 14 1/2" lower bout; I see larger ones are about 16".

[MarkRhodes]

I have a question about the thumb. When I was a kid I developed what has been called the "hitch hiker" position of my thumb on the back of the neck. (That is, the thumbnail points along the back of the neck toward the headstock.) In addition, the thumb (pad) is about a fret left of my index finger. (The thumb is at the same fret as the index when I play most chords.)

Today I chanced upon an article on left hand fingering that suggested the following. First, turn your hand palm up. Second, move your thumb (-without bending at the knuckle) over your upturned palm until the nail is between your second and third fingers. Third, curl your fingers as if holding a guitar. Fourth, pick up your guitar and place your left hand on it in this position.

I did that and it felt very different. Is this what most of you have been doing all along????

[henryrobinett]

My basic position is thumb behind the neck, but it's fluid. I bend strings from time to time, so the thumb comes around. Some chords I throw my thumb over the 6th string, or mute like that. It all depends. But my default position is thumb between the 1st and 2nd string behind the neck. I have a great reach that way.

[MarkRhodes]

My basic position is thumb behind the neck, but it's fluid. I bend strings from time to time, so the thumb comes around. Some chords I throw my thumb over the 6th string, or mute like that. It all depends. But my default position is thumb between the 1st and 2nd string behind the neck. I have a great reach that way.

Thanks, Henry. I get the 'low down' thing (between the first and second string) but what I'm wondering is where your thumb is in relation to your fingers. (If the neck suddenly vanished, which finger would your thumb touch? The first? The second? Does it make a difference?)

I have a pretty big hand so reach has never been a problem in and of itself. My problem is a shallow cutaway and a big hand---above the twelfth fret starts to feel like a crowd in a phone booth. But that's another story....

[henryrobinett]

I don't know. Sometimes I think it'd touch my 1st, other times my 2nd. I don't think it much matters. I think something's are just too anal. Playing will decide it. As you showed each hand, arm, fingers, body is different. I'm not sure that one size fits all. But I'm firmly convinced with a little attention and a lot of playing and practicing the hand will correct itself. It finds the proper placement.