Left Hand Guitar Technique?

[elixzer]

I am interested to know how you all approach the left hand technique.
I am struggling with this at present hence asking here.
Do most of you do left hand technique the 'right' way which is the thumb behind the neck---which as far as I am aware is the Classical way of left hand technique

We know that there are Blues players, and rock players that use the baseball bat grip on the neck with thumb right over the neck often to bar lower strings

But what do you recommend---'you' being all the different views about this?

[franco6719]

Personally,I just use whatever grip is comfortable and/or comes naturally...

[elixzer]

Personally,I just use whatever grip is comfortable and/or comes naturally...

So you mean that you change it as you play--whatever suits what and how you play?

[franco6719]

Pretty much. Maybe I have been leaning a little more recently toward a thumbs-behind and tip-of-finger approach when practicing exercises or lines. That might help in the long run. I don't know. But, when I just play, I don't think about it and it's just whatever comes at the moment. I will often use the baseball grip or any grip...

[elixzer]

Well it is confusing me and acting as a block. People at jazz.be at one time were on my case to get a guitar teacher. Well tutors INSIST the 'correct position' where thumb is like a pivot on back of neck. So say another teachers says no it doesn't matter....? Are they bad?
I read today this article giving advice about looking for a good teacher. So what would be that. For as I say--some online turors and articles written by them say that the grip and thumb sticking up is wrong, and not to do it beeecause "learning bad habits is VERY hard to undo"

So who the hell dya believe then??

[Kochavi]

Well, I think there is a 'right' left hand technique. There are certain things that I learned (also from a classical teacher) that are done in order to get best results and they are:

-Keep your fingers round (and not straight) at all times (exept natural harmonics)
-Keep your fingers parallel to the fretboard and in a straight line (with each other)
-When moving position, move by sliding a common finger on the string while not pressing the string down. When you do this, release the thumb from the neck, and when you reach the new position, put the pressure back.
-This reminds me, thumb behind the neck
-Be sure you press your fingers at the right spot, so the note doesn't hum and sounds clear.
-Be aware of the fingerings (something I discovered suprisingly really important)

If something of the above is not clear, point it out and I'll be happy to try to explain it better.

These are mostly the technical issues I think and practice. I know they work well for what I play. I assume that for different needs other things will do better, like bends and stuff like that the thumb above neck is better. But again, this is the techniqe I learned as right, and it seems very right and logical to me and it works real good when you practice it.

[wizard3739]

Here is a thought and a test for you!

1) Put your left hand on the neck as though you were going to use you thumb on th 6th string (some very good guitar players use this technique). While in this position, see how far and how quickly you can reach up the neck with your pinky finger.

2) Now put your left hand on the neck with your thumb on the bottom of the neck (classical position). Now see how far and how quickly you can reach up the neck with your pinky finger. WOW!!

This test should speak for itself.

wiz

[Scrybe]

Well tutors INSIST the 'correct position' where thumb is like a pivot on back of neck.

Um....I'm pretty sure that not all teachers insist on that, mainly because I've met and worked with tutors who don't insist on that. It simply isn't the case that all tutors insist upon this technique being used all the time. Most good teachers advocate using a variety of grips depending on the musical situation.

[fumblefingers]

classical position for your "base", and reach over only when needed.

grabbing a big fat maj6/9 chord for example.

[bkdavidson]

I tell my students that classical position should be the "default setting" and that's how I usually try to play. That left hand position allows for the greatest reach and dexterity, but there are many applications where that should be deviated from. For instance, barring chords is easier if the thumb is brought up a bit, as it helps to flatten the fingers over a few different strings. Also, string bending is a lot easier if you wrap your thumb around the top a little. If you're playing Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, or John Mayer, it's required for many of the chords. It's also helpful in solo jazz playing for grabbing roots occasionally on some chords.

[CraigB]

I agree with BK. Try to use the best "accepted" norm you can, but deviate freely. The thumb can come in handy, like BK said, in solo jazz guitar as well as a good deal of folk and rock.

Mostly though, do what keeps you coming back to the instrument and what doesn't cause a feeling of too much strain. Repetitive motion injuries can occur when you're forcing something like a severe bend in your wrist. You'll feel it though, so not much to worry about.

However you do it I hope you get what you're looking for out of the music.

[franco6719]

Well, for what it is worth, I never studied classical guitar formally. However, I had quite a few outstanding guitar teachers at the Berklee College of Music. As a matter of fact, not ONE of them ever so much as mentioned the issue. Wes Montgomery played with three fingers most of the time. He doesn't sound too bad to me. Django only HAD two fingers and a stub to play with: excellent left-hand technique. What else need I say?

[franco6719]

Not to be argumentative, but I basically agree with the last two posts and not the first one about "the absolute right technique", in other words.

[elixzer]

I agree with BK. Try to use the best "accepted" norm you can, but deviate freely. The thumb can come in handy, like BK said, in solo jazz guitar as well as a good deal of folk and rock.

Mostly though, do what keeps you coming back to the instrument and what doesn't cause a feeling of too much strain. Repetitive motion injuries can occur when you're forcing something like a severe bend in your wrist. You'll feel it though, so not much to worry about.

However you do it I hope you get what you're looking for out of the music.

"Repetitive motion injuries can occur when you're forcing something like a severe bend in your wrist. You'll feel it though, so not much to worry about."

By this do you mean when your doing the 'correct default Classical' position?

[JohnRoss]

I tell my students that classical position should be the "default setting"

Strongly agree.

but there are many applications where that should be deviated from. For instance, barring chords is easier if the thumb is brought up a bit, as it helps to flatten the fingers over a few different strings.

Disagree, particularly with that example. For one thing, it's a healthy goal to be able to execute barres without the thumb touching the neck at all. For another, if you bring your thumb up, it pulls your hand round so that the fingers are no longer parallel to the frets, which is highly undesirable.

Also, string bending is a lot easier if you wrap your thumb around the top a little.

Emphatically agree, and there seems to be a trend (from what I read) for rock/blues guitar teachers to insist that string-bending should be done from the hand or even arm, rather than from the fingers.

[gordon]

i know there are songs i can't play without having that classical position enforced. But you shouldn't worry too much about it, having your left hand completely relaxed at all time when playing is a lot more important technically speaking, imo

[elixzer]

i know there are songs i can't play without having that classical position enforced. But you shouldn't worry too much about it, having your left hand completely relaxed at all time when playing is a lot more important technically speaking, imo

Yes--and Jamie Andreas recommends no tension when playing to, but this is the problem: When I DO try the 'correct classical position' i DO feel tension in back of hand and forearm. It feels unnatural. Does THAt tension wear off?

[gordon]

not if you have a bad technique. the classical position is about having the guitar properly placed on the left knee (if you are right handed) and your left foot being lift off the floor using a stand, if sitting on a straight chair. your waist should remain straight as well. then you'll notice that your wrist won't bend when placing your fingers on the board. but maybe you know this already... and yes i vaguely remember (this was 30 years ago) feeling uncomfortable when first trying it. if you are just starting, a teacher will help you get the right position

[elixzer]

not if you have a bad technique. the classical position is about having the guitar properly placed on the left knee (if you are right handed) and your left foot being lift off the floor using a stand, if sitting on a straight chair. your waist should remain straight as well. then you'll notice that your wrist won't bend when placing your fingers on the board. but maybe you know this already... and yes i vaguely remember (this was 30 years ago) feeling uncomfortable when first trying it. if you are just starting, a teacher will help you get the right position

It is because of this problem I have taken advice from some members here to try find a flesh and blood teacher--Even if just to correct my posture as you say.
Alright you say that correct posture is the Classical position leg raised, guitar at angle--I have been trying to do that actually. But when you look at Flamenco you dont have that--the guitar is same position as Blues, Country, Rock. Why?

IF the teacher will say that yeah I WILl feel a pull or tension at first but it will go I will feel better. I have heard about tendonitus that worries me. Ie., how to know bad tension from 'good tension that will go away'?

[gordon]

well, for most people it is important to get the right position first and then do as you feel; i can get a similar feel while crossing my legs and have the guitar on my right thigh with my chest pushing forward, the neck of the guitar is then about the same place as when using the right classical position. another one is to have the guitar high strapped when standing up and the neck pulled towards the left ear if that makes sense lol
it's hard to describe with words but to get the classical position check her out:

and notice how her wrist never bends
with this technique, that girl could play the caprice over and over for 2 hours and never get tired because she doesn't put pressure on her left hand at all

in fact, if you put pressure on your left hand, there are songs you'll never be able to play and might end up thinking 'why this guitar thing is not for me'...
technique is extremely important at the beginning. then it quickly becomes second nature

oh and to answer your question, i don't think there is such a thing as what you call good tension. tension should always be worked out of the learning to play guitar equation, and that's when technique comes in

[TommyD]

There is no question that palming the neck slows you down. There is a reason that proper technique stresses thumb on the back of the neck and palm not touching the neck; it allows longer stretches, quicker movement up and down the neck, and more flexibility and speed in fretting.
Players who wrap their thumb around the neck and use the thumb to fret the E and A strings can be great players, are there are some we all know - but they are great despite this, not because of it.
Why learn a habit that will ultimately be a detriment to your playing? There is no debate here at all.

Tommy/

[elixzer]

There is no question that palming the neck slows you down. There is a reason that proper technique stresses thumb on the back of the neck and palm not touching the neck; it allows longer stretches, quicker movement up and down the neck, and more flexibility and speed in fretting.
Players who wrap their thumb around the neck and use the thumb to fret the E and A strings can be great players, are there are some we all know - but they are great despite this, not because of it.
Why learn a habit that will ultimately be a detriment to your playing? There is no debate here at all.

Tommy/

well there is debate because not everyone agrees with your position

Personally,I just use whatever grip is comfortable and/or comes naturally...

[elixzer]

Also people--dont be shy to link to videos of Jazz guitarists who you believe have the best Left hand technique?

[JohnRoss]

It is because of this problem I have taken advice from some members here to try find a flesh and blood teacher--Even if just to correct my posture as you say.

Good idea.

Alright you say that correct posture is the Classical position leg raised, guitar at angle--I have been trying to do that actually. But when you look at Flamenco you dont have that--the guitar is same position as Blues, Country, Rock. Why?

Different instruments, with different weights, different balance, different force required, in different directions... And don't adopt the classical posture unless you are playing a classical instrument, if you use it for a dreadnought, you might do yourself an injury.

i don't think there is such a thing as what you call good tension.

So how are beginners going to learn to do bar chords? Or anything else involving hitherto unused muscles?

how to know bad tension from 'good tension that will go away'?

You said it already, a teacher. A suitable teacher for both the style and the instrument you want to learn.

[elixzer]

Good idea.

Different instruments, with different weights, different balance, different force required, in different directions... And don't adopt the classical posture unless you are playing a classical instrument, if you use it for a dreadnought, you might do yourself an injury.

WOW! That is very interesting. Maybe.....that could be part of the difficulty I am having with that position of hand--the Classical position, in that my guitar isn't right for that technique? my guitar is a roundbacked steel-string semi-accoustic Encore. It hadn't occured to me that a non Classical guitar may not be suitable for that position of playing at angle, etc

So how are beginners going to learn to do bar chords? Or anything else involving hitherto unused muscles?

This is your response to gordon. Yes this has been a big confusion---ie., I dont want injury but how to tell what i am doing is OK and that eventually will get alright with practice?

You said it already, a teacher. A suitable teacher for both the style and the instrument you want to learn.

the pressure now is to find the GOOD teacher. I have picked up some tips: Dont say what music your into and see what music they specialize in; Don't go for a 'jack of all trades'; use the trick question 'what can you teach me' (if I remember it right)--if they tell you rather than admit they have to see you play first before they can see where your at it shows lack of experience