Speed limit

[BreckerFan]

I internalized subdivision back in my djent days by listening to Meshuggah. It's like if you take three or four pieces of heavy industrial equipment and turn them all on at the same time....in a good way.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

subdivision is perfectly easy. All you have to do is learn to do this.

EDIT; I LOVE that Konnakol is considered way nerdy in Southern India…

Even" Tennessee" and "Mississippi" can go a long way.

[Oscar67]

Yes! I’ve actually grown bored with my own playing over the last few months - it’s nothing new, it’s not exciting, and it lacks grace. So I’m trying hard to try less hard and just let it flow. But I have 2 weekly gigs, so I owe the audience and club owners a good show with a minimal dose of clams. I think I’m coming out of this slump, but it sure woke me up. I haven’t felt this way about my playing for years - I was complacent and insufficiently self-critical.

Thank you for your honesty! Most of us have been there, I know I have…

[Oscar67]

But personally I would never want to forego being able to use fast rhythms because I like the sound. And I also think it isn't accurate to say speed is meaningless.

Neither would I, which is why I work on my weakness :-)
What I said was that speed is meaningless in and by itself. In the right context it can be fantastic.

[m_d]

Yeah Breckerfan and bediles, you guys are wrong. Your top speed isn't how fast you can spaz your right hand without any requirements of hitting correct notes. It's the bottleneck of how fast you can accurately fret notes with your weaker non dominant hand. Having a fast tremolo picking speed in the right hand doesn't by definition mean you can match that speed with your left hand playing lines. Most players can't.

I wouldn't be so sure. The whole story of how Troy Grady came to play fast tells a different story. He doesn't play jazz notes (while he's done a convincing imitation a couple of times) but I think his articulation is pretty darn good. Same for the bluegrass crowd. Pretty fantastic articulation. I have to admit, a lot better than many jazz players - again, regardless of choice of notes. You may not like the notes but they still are notes, lots of 'em. There's bound to be some crossover possible. There's a video of (bluegrass guitar virtuoso) Chris Eldridge copying a Joe Pass piece note for note as a challenge (mandolin star) Chris Thiele put to him and he does a pretty good job of it - on a flat top acoustic. If one of those guys decided to get into straight ahead jazz seriously it could be pretty interesting.

[m_d]

I mean that’s pretty obviously not what I said.

It’s just more interesting to me when people are playing out at the edges of stuff. When people are never getting out into that space, it can start sounding a little safe and a little predictable. Obviously technique is good and you don’t want to listen to someone who’s just a mess.

When someone with monster chops like Biréli Lagrène plays at the edges it's even more interesting IMO.

[Christian Miller]

32nds or gtfo. :P

Demisemiquavers

[Christian Miller]

Even" Tennessee" and "Mississippi" can go a long way.

I have a friend who gets school children to play in 42/8 by saying

Jeremy Jeremy Corbyn Jeremy Jeremy Corbyn
Jeremy Jeremy Jeremy Jeremy, Jeremy Jeremy Corbyn

[Christian Miller]

I wouldn't be so sure. The whole story of how Troy Grady came to play fast tells a different story. He doesn't play jazz notes (while he's done a convincing imitation a couple of times) but I think his articulation is pretty darn good. Same for the bluegrass crowd. Pretty fantastic articulation. I have to admit, a lot better than many jazz players - again, regardless of choice of notes. You may not like the notes but they still are notes, lots of 'em. There's bound to be some crossover possible. There's a video of (bluegrass guitar virtuoso) Chris Eldridge copying a Joe Pass piece note for note as a challenge (mandolin star) Chris Thiele put to him and he does a pretty good job of it - on a flat top acoustic. If one of those guys decided to get into straight ahead jazz seriously it could be pretty interesting.

I saw Punch brothers at london jazz festival a few years back. It was bonkers.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah that’s the margins though. I don’t think Coltrane often thinks of an idea in the moment and goes “shucks maybe next time.” Though he often reaches for something and misses.

For what it’s worth I kind of find it boring when folks don’t reach for that space just past the technique.

Maybe that’s part of what’s so difficult about improvising. The ideas you have at your disposal in the moment are limited by your technique but if you aren’t pushing out to the edges of those limits it can be a bit dull.

And for what it’s worth also … the limits of those techniques are not always speed. Clifford brown is always reaching for stuff … a little interval skip after a turn that he cracks the first time. That kind of thing.

I was chatting to a sax player who said he prefer joshua redman to many other prominent players because his playing has more of these moments of stretching out for something, getting it 99% of the time but every so often…

[m_d]

I saw Punch brothers at london jazz festival a few years back. It was bonkers.

Did you mean in a good way? They're pretty incredible. I've had a tendency when someone blows me away to get intimidated and end up ignoring them! I did that with Biréli Lagrène for years. With unlimited access to visuals through YouTube it somehow brings it down more to earth.

[Christian Miller]

Did you mean in a good way? They're pretty incredible. I've had a tendency when someone blows me away to get intimidated and end up ignoring them! I did that with Biréli Lagrène for years. With unlimited access to visuals through YouTube it somehow brings it down more to earth.

Well I think it was the most complete display of musicianship I’ve ever seen, but completely at the service of the songs. I’m not even that much of a fan tbh, but they are INSANE. The vocal harmonies alone….

[Peter C]

Not a Rush fan, btw, I just looked up subdivisions and found that amazing child doing a drum cover of their song, which was far more interesting to me than the examples of mathematical breakdowns (8ths, 16ths, triplets etc) that I saw. I can't imagine learning to play that way. Is it a thing?

[Christian Miller]

Re - the intimidation thing

I’m much more likely to get that from someone amazing on my local scene rather than some internationally renowned virtuosos who I regard as being in their own rarified sphere of marvellousness.

I can barely bear to watch Tom Ollendorff videos for instance haha. Or Nick Linnick, continuing the Holdsworth legacy in his own voice. These players are out there out there in my endz, half my age and playing ridiculously. … It does tend to make me question what I’ve done with my life. But I think even those in what we regard as musical Olympus feel that way!

mostly now I see music is it’s about finding something that’s true, and doing something that’s right for you. You are making art not engaging in some intergalactic pissing contest.

[m_d]

Re - the intimidation thing

I’m much more likely to get that from someone amazing on my local scene rather than some internationally renowned virtuosos who I regard as being in their own rarified sphere of marvellousness.

I can barely bear to watch Tom Ollendorff videos for instance haha. Or Nick Linnick, continuing the Holdsworth legacy in his own voice. These players are out there out there in my endz, half my age and playing ridiculously. … It does tend to make me question what I’ve done with my life. But I think even those in what we regard as musical Olympus feel that way!

mostly now I see music is it’s about finding something that’s true, and doing something that’s right for you. You are making art not engaging in some intergalactic pissing contest.

We all have several lives in parallel, all are important. My guitar life is my biggest failure. Twenty years since lightning struck - a guitar teacher's playing and trying to understand how he did it, giving up and picking it up again ; and now that I sort of understand, still struggling to put it all together. Not to mention that once I do I still need to build my own style. But you on the other hand, so far as I can see, are already there. Apart from the teaching you have some truly beautiful music on your YouTube channel - I'm sure it has many fans in the real world.

[Reg]

Yea... I gotta say, my best gigs are when I help the music, I work with other players and raise the level of performance. And subdividing also works in larger or longer sections of time. When accent patterns line up and extrapolate or we reach or create another level of Feel.

And part of that feel comes from using musical organization... like having a simple rhythmic pattern, then developing elements of that simple rhythmic pattern, both rhythmically and harmonically.

It's like having a 8 bar phrase with a simple harmonic rhythm, a pattern that can repeat. Then you create different variations of that 8 bars that also have a pattern. The pattern is the organization of variations of that 8 bar pattern.

Now through variations of the basic 8 bar phrase, using subdivisions, and standard harmonic, melodic, rhythmic and articulations of that basic 8 bar phrase... the 8 bar phrase becomes an 32 bar rhythmic pattern with musical organization.... Your raising the level of performance... It's not just A A B A... or A B A C .

So you can use subdivision to raise the level of feel which will naturally feel like your locked in a expandable pocket that has no end. Then you need to actually make this feel implied, almost camouflaged... alive and support the melody or improve. It becomes a style of playing.. organization of longer sections of time that reflect the shorter sections.

yea this can also be lots of BS... You can also just notate it out. LOL

[Christian Miller]

We all have several lives in parallel, all are important. My guitar life is my biggest failure. Twenty years since lightning struck - a guitar teacher's playing and trying to understand how he did it, giving up and picking it up again ; and now that I sort of understand, still struggling to put it all together. Not to mention that once I do I still need to build my own style. But you on the other hand, so far as I can see, are already there. Apart from the teaching you have some truly beautiful music on your YouTube channel - I'm sure it has many fans in the real world.

Thanks so much, matey! Really appreciate it. I’m slowly groping towards something I think :-)

[Peter C]

Yea... I gotta say, my best gigs are when I help the music, I work with other players and raise the level of performance. And subdividing also works in larger or longer sections of time. When accent patterns line up and extrapolate or we reach or create another level of Feel.

Yes, this is great when it happens, ie, playing off each other (as I remember)!