-
I don't think Miles would have named a track John McLaughlin if he thought he was a dingus.
JM probably has some less than amazing recordings. So does Miles, about 15 years worth.
-
08-04-2022 08:44 AM
-
I’ve taken to doing recovery runs with In a Silent Way (I can’t help but pick up the pace when Tony opens up on the ride though) and I’m always knocked out by Johns subtle flavourings on that record.
Originally Posted by sully75
listening again to his more recent playing after studying a bit of Konnakol it really strikes me how much his picking sounds like Konnakol syllables. (There’s even a Konnakol section on que Allegria iirc.)
So it’s not so much that he has a ‘stiff’ feel so much as a very Carnatic one, with that very specific type of springy feel that tradition has. In jazz often the guitar lags the beat a little, it’s stylish. JM is right on it. His time and articulation are pretty amazing.
-
Yeah. I kinda think JM would be better off not playing straight ahead jazz, I don't think it's his strong point but he's coming from a very unique place and I owe my love for Indian music to him. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
After listening to Shakti since like 1994 it was only 2 years ago that I realized that it's all South Indian based (despite Zakir Hussain being in the band).
JM on the Miles recordings is so jagged. People saying his playing is really white there...I don't get it. He's pretty funky but he cuts like a knife.
-
Ps do check this out:
There's a really funny part where the Santur player looks at him during JMs solo with this glowing look of love. The Kanjira player is one of the great ones too Selvaganesh.
-
And me! Absolutely love In a Silent Way, and yes JM's playing very much provoked by Miles's koan: Play guitar like you don't know how: and magic ensued... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
On Que Alegria it's true there is quite an Indian feel on some tracks; but both JM and his percussionist Trilok Gurtu are equally adept IMO at a swing feel, and IIRC there are a couple of tracks where it breaks down into a blues with swing in addition to the great blues 'One Nite Stand'. He plays a great jazz blues and his picking can sound slippery smooth, swung (esp. with The Free Spirits) or staccato, depending on what sort of feel he's going for. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Yes, on the what are you listening to thread I posted the above cut from The Cellar Door Sessions when I found out Michael Henderson had died. Unlike you and Keith Jarrett however, I listen to the disks with JM more than the others...
This is another one of my favourites. It's based around a blues with some interesting substitutions - some day I will figure out what they are, but it sounds like the altered and other melodic minor scales are used a fair amount. In any case it's a barnstorming tour-de-force which takes me on a little trip every time I listen to it...
-
Thanks, listening now. Originally Posted by sully75
-
Actually Miles did try out George Benson and Joe Beck, he recorded one or two tracks featuring them, but neither of them made much impact. (I think Benson says in his biography that he didn’t have a clue what they were playing!) Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So McLaughlin’s approach must have been what he was looking for.
-
Tbf I recall an interview where McLaughlin was equally bemused. I think that was just the gig, Miles wasn’t a fan of explanations. Originally Posted by grahambop
I love the track Gb plays on though. 60s miles :-)
certainly Miles wasn’t much interested in straight jazz guitar; he was hearing Jimi (although maybe not when he auditioned George?)
-
Slightly out of tune E major chord is one of the best moments in music. Can’t teach that at jazz school lol. Originally Posted by James W
Yes I know the track you mean and I like it. But really he’s moved away from that vein I think, at least I rarely hear him swinging, but it’s foolish to think that’s not a choice.On Que Alegria it's true there is quite an Indian feel on some tracks; but both JM and his percussionist Trilok Gurtu are equally adept IMO at a swing feel, and IIRC there are a couple of tracks where it breaks down into a blues with swing in addition to the great blues 'One Nite Stand'. He plays a great jazz blues and his picking can sound slippery smooth, swung (esp. with The Free Spirits) or staccato, depending on what sort of feel he's going for.
Well, you better get transcribing eh? (Sorry to be annoying haha.)This is another one of my favourites. It's based around a blues with some interesting substitutions - some day I will figure out what they are, but it sounds like the altered and other melodic minor scales are used a fair amount. In any case it's a barnstorming tour-de-force which takes me on a little trip every time I listen to it...
-
that’s mega that is. Thanks for posting Originally Posted by sully75
-
I think these swing - but what do I know? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Holdsworth. Of course, we'd have to raise him too. Originally Posted by jster
-
The key to understanding JM is the realization that he may have already had the best jazz ears on the planet when only in his early 20s. Here was my introduction to JM over fifty years ago, his own first project, probably my favorite record, which I bought, wore out, gave away and replaced, etc. about four times... even today I still don't know what kind of jazz this is called.(?)
Last edited by pauln; 04-11-2023 at 01:00 AM.
-
I find this hard to swallow, remembering who else was on the planet back then. Full respect to JM of course, monster musican. Originally Posted by pauln
In terms of guitarists, I always felt JM had the edge over Benson and the others Miles tried for his electric band in the progressiveness and blues/rock/R&B colour of his playing. Miles was listening to Jimi and James Brown, not Wes. While common today, JM probably had a niche at that time as a jazz guy who could play in a modern style.
Bruce Forman recalls going to a miles gig and realising he’d never play with Miles because his style just wouldn’t be of interest to him.
-
Actually that reminds me of another Bruce F anecdote - going to hear Scott Henderson play and thinking ‘how is it possible I’ve missed the entire point of my instrument?’
haha as a mostly straight jazzer I know how he feels, and yet there’s as many guitarists out there pastiching scott these days as Wes. It’s just hard to find your own thing.
-
I'm about half way through writing down JM's solo. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Looking over this thread again, I suspect it’s only a matter of time before ChatGPT harvests what I invented in post no. 6, and inserts it into someone’s jazz PHD thesis as a bona fide Miles quote.
(I had completely forgotten about it.)
-
I see that I recommended some Remember Shakti up above, I've been finding a bunch of live concerts on youtube lately, they are all stunning. Indian music is one of the few musics I can listen to while I'm focusing on a task so these concerts are great.
The (late) mandolin player Srinivas is just totally stunning. He kinda outshines JM sometimes even though I think JM clearly is enjoying every minute of it.
These compositions are so intricate. I would love to try to learn one sometime, they are technically impossible and also seem to have tons and tons and tons of intricate parts that they are all able to pull up at any time.
ANYWAY EVERYONE SHOULD CHECKA THIS AAAAOUT
I also love JM's little sit on the ground guitar.
-
I think plenty of guitar players could hang with Coltrane...Rez Abassi is one that pops into my head. He's got the sort of hindustani JM thing and is probably a better straight jazz player than JM.
-
Listening/watching now, you're right, it's excellent. Originally Posted by sully75
I can't wait to see Shakti in June!
-
Oh I am going to have to try to get tickets for that. Bela Fleck is on it too!
-
That's both a holy fuck and holy fuck these prices are out of control. $119 min, $1099 max wtf ?
-
$1,000 is pretty high. My symphony is pretty expensive, more than that lower figure.
How much does Bruce Springsteen charge?
What’s the venue for those prices? Also, how many more times are you going to be able to see John McLaughlin?
-
If you listen to the Extrapolation album his grasp of jazz harmony is scary off the chart. When accompanying, the various strummed and stabbing chords, the choice of chords, voices, the double stops and even single notes are profoundly beautiful. The front side of My Goals Beyond eliminates any doubt - jazz songs played with chords I would guess most of us have never heard, yet when hearing them they are not being forced in, they are being found homes in the music.
Much of his soloing is similarly profoundly beautiful, and some of it seems a little quirky. My sense is that is from going out of bounds of what was considered allowable. The move into the Mahavishnu project allowed more freedom outside those bounds, but also left behind some connection to jazz. I liked it, but also wondered where he would go after that... he did some nice stuff after, but he really seemed to like the Shakti project. I think that gives him the closest to absolute freedom.
By the way, one of the most interesting things I ever read about JM was when Robert Fripp (King Crimson) visited JM in his home in Paris and interviewed him.
Interview with John McLaughlin by Robert Fripp in Musician - ETWiki
-
It gets to be the point where it becomes totally unaffordable. There's like $30 in ticket fees per person so it's like$300 for two people to sit in the balcony. I saw Zakir and like 5 drummers in Boston 10 years ago and it was maybe $40. Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
I will probably go and owe JM a lot but it's a bit much.
I guess I haven't actually given him any money since I bought my Shakti CD and he's provided many hours of inspiration.
Reply With Quote
The Moon Song, Johnny Mandell
Today, 05:51 AM in The Songs