Trying to put together a simple daily practice routine - help?

[frabarmus]

[emanresu]

Eh, to get the memory of the chordal movement into the spine, the aimless endless noodling does actually work quite well.
Though the outcome is probably aimless endless stream of notes.
A goal that tends to help me is to try to make sense all the time. At least to try
If a phrase just happened "like so", the other phrase has to kinda step on to it, not away.
Can't even put it in words. Hm, often all together sounds like something from a 3rd grade songbook.. in the beginning of such workout.
Those grades thankfully increase when the attention is not lost from that goal.

[Christian Miller]

Indeed. SMART goals are good (that's an acronym for anyone not familiar with it).

I guess the point about measuring progress might seem elusive in some respects in the context of improvising but it's a case of identifying aspects of improvisations you admire, practising them and finally getting them into your own improvisation in a way that flows. Thus, the ostensibly subjective nature of improv is something tangibly improvable.

Yeah - I think it’s fine to measure things in a really basic way. Practice is work, we want to get paid (even if we enjoy it.)

Oh I learned three tunes today. I can now play a G major scale in all positions. I transcribed 32 bars of a solo. I know four new voicings for Cmaj7 I didn’t know a week ago. That’s sort of thing.

With other things you can measure outcomes better - oh I can play this at 200bpm now, couldn’t do that a month ago.

It is of course hard to evaluate improvisation. It is very subjective. For example, I tend to grow to like my recorded solos more over time as I forget what was going on in my head.

You can obviously identify basic issues like chord changes that hang you up, and then work on ways to practice those things, but beyond that sort of basic craft stuff, I’m not sure there is such a thing as practicing improvisation. You either improvise music or you don’t.

You can impose a constraint on improvisation and that can be effective for making one play more creatively- for example, paraphrase the melody, use this motif, play on one string etc - but I do that on gigs! Which means it’s making music, and PLAY, not practice.

OTOH when I try to shoehorn new material into improv the result is rarely musical. I struggle with this a bit when trying to demonstrate ideas on my channel. It doesn’t work when I do it on a gig for sure, and I don’t think it’s the best way to internalise new ideas

I think it’s more effective to mechanically practice a new musical idea through a tune, or compose a chorus through a tune in some way.

The reason for this AFAIK is that with improv you have to cultivate a sort of distracted concentration where you don’t start overthinking. I feel that state of mind is completely opposed to the rather conscious and scientific state of mind required to practice effectively.

The best way I’ve found to work on improvisation - apart from transcription - is to listen back to one’s gig recordings and reflect on what you hear, which is often different from what you perceive in the moment.

Which is the same thing I suppose! Transcription is just a form of deep, active listening. The difference is I do it away from an instrument whereas most of the time I’m playing stuff as I transcribe (mostly, not always.)

For hobbyists it’s obviously different because they want to play as well as practice when they get an hour or so to pick up the guitar - whereas for the professional, playing mostly happens at a different time and venue. I think what can help is a division between the two things. Noodling is absolutely fine provided there’s also an agenda for what to work on and it gets done.

Tbh I think guitarists have a natural tendency to play without a purpose. Which is something learning to really practice can change.

[Christian Miller]

What he is describing is ‘interleaved practice’. See also the Bulletproof Musician.

I have used this for over ten years.


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[rpjazzguitar]

I can't tell anybody else what to practice, or how, but I can list some things that occur to me as having been helpful. Or would have been helpful if I had more discipline.

1. Learning to read. That took some work. Best when you're young. Hard for adult players, in my experience.

2. Playing tunes.

3. Ear training, either formally or via transcription -- as much as you can stand. Should have done this more.

4. Comping tunes in 12 keys. Studying how reharmonizations work. Should have done this more.

5. Playing with other people as often as possible -- and making a good deal of effort to make sure this happens. And, making sure you play with the best players you possibly can.

6. Knowing enough theory to inform your playing but not to get so wrapped up in it you never see light again.

7. Recording and critiqueing.

8. Gigging. Focuses the mind.

9. At some point, when you're agog over somebody else's sound, play their gear for a few minutes, which should be long enough to convince yourself it's not the gear.

And, for the very advanced player:

Accept your limitations and work on your strengths.

Things I never found helpful:

Books of licks.

Dots on grids.

Paragraphs explaining how to arrive at a huge number of combinatorics (e.g. every possible triad pair against every possible bass note).

Going to open jams.

Some advanced theoretical concepts I won't name for fear of triggering a war.

[AllanAllen]

You guys keep saying “trio” like it means one thing.

When I say trio it’s usually guitar, trumpet and bass. We’ve been subbing trumpet with piano because he’s busy.

As such I play a lot of chords.

[pauln]

When I say "trio" it's guitar bass drums,
so I figure about 7000 chords per hour.

[sgcim]

There are three Elements you should imcorporate according to Peter Sprague's outline on how to practice. You should be concentrating on:
1) Touching base with previous material and the maintenance of technique

2) Current projects
3) Creativity session
For #1, make sure you take into account the long term health of your body by using stretches and exercises that prevent CTS and Ulnar Nerve Entrapment.
#2 and #3 are self explanatory, and all previous suggestions have varying validity.

[pauln]

It is a long term habit; so imagine the result of always practicing so that:

- you never allowed an ugly or non-musical sound omitted by the guitar
- nothing you played wouldn't be appropriate to be performed in a tune
- each time you played enough to discover and develop something new

These are simple high level principles; they clarify all the motive details

[FourOnSix]

It is a long term habit; so imagine the result of always practicing so that:

- you never allowed an ugly or non-musical sound omitted by the guitar

Personally, I think your practice should involve omitting ugly sounds as much as possible. But that's just me.

[Christian Miller]

I have heard people say that if you don’t sound bad when practicing it’s not really practice….


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[CliffR]

I have heard people say that if you don’t sound bad when practicing it’s not really practice….


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I must be awesome at practice! Hurrah!

[JazzKatua]

I mean … it’s okay to practice single notes too.

Good point!
e.g. Lennie Tristano advised his piano students to instead of playing left hand voicings and right hand single note impro to ONLY stick with single not playing.
Nowadays I practice single note playing exclusively by getting the sound of great horn players like Konitz for instance.

[JazzKatua]

dont do any of the above ..dive straight into transcriptions...plethora of stuff out there..Tabs and notation..before long youll be blowing like a jazzman...academic stuff id leave behind..unless you like exercises

Idd, same hear! Transcriptions contain the MUSIC itself; exercises can be a complement, but not the main objective IMHO.

[JazzKatua]

Everyday, I'm playing the Songs I know, but trying to incorporate new technical exercises and rhythmic timing stuff.

I try to remind myself, "less single note noodling and more comping, comping, comping."

But again today, I have to remind myself, more comping.

Why comping, comping?
It's not because you can play chords on the guitar you HAVE to play chords. Consider yourself a soloist; as a comparison: A Night at the "Village Vanguard" of Sonny Rollins; no chords to be heard on this album and that's fine too; Sonny moulded the music he wanted.

[GuyBoden]

Why comping, comping?

Because, I can't comp very well and other players want the guitarist to comp, so I need to practice comping more.

[JazzKatua]

Because, I can't comp very well and other players want the guitarist to comp, so I need to practice comping more.

Maybe you can start with just 2 notes; guide tones. That's how I started comping other soloists at my last gig and then gradually 3 note chords to 4 note chords. To lay off the harmony that's more than enough.

[sgcim]

Good point!
e.g. Lennie Tristano advised his piano students to instead of playing left hand voicings and right hand single note impro to ONLY stick with single not playing.
Nowadays I practice single note playing exclusively by getting the sound of great horn players like Konitz for instance.

He had that jazz pianist who played with David Bowie play the single note melody to standards for two years. No chords, no improv, just single note
melodies to songs like "Bye Bye Blues. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Christian Miller]

Because, I can't comp very well and other players want the guitarist to comp, so I need to practice comping more.

This kind of good sense has no place on a guitar forum


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[Christian Miller]

Good point!
e.g. Lennie Tristano advised his piano students to instead of playing left hand voicings and right hand single note impro to ONLY stick with single not playing.
Nowadays I practice single note playing exclusively by getting the sound of great horn players like Konitz for instance.

Tristano said a lot of stuff lol

Though to be fair I did say, chords are lame quite recently, so I’m probably aligned with your sort of thinking.

But you know sometimes chords are de rigeur. Depends.

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[kris]

I'm just a fan of jazz music and I only play by ear.
I mean, I'm currently at that level.

[JazzKatua]

Tristano said a lot of stuff lol

Though to be fair I did say, chords are lame quite recently, so I’m probably aligned with your sort of thinking.

But you know sometimes chords are de rigeur. Depends.

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chords are NOT 'de rigeur' as you put it so 'hautain' in a french way.
As I mentioned b4 in this thread; A Night at the "Village Vanguard" by Sonny Rollins (R.I.P.) had no chordal instrument playing on these recordings
BTW, if you'd listen to J.S. Bach Fugues in WTC you ONLY hear horizontal melodies; you don't hear 'vertical chords'. Although the horizontal lines IMPLY vertical chords, but they ain't.

[Christian Miller]

chords are NOT 'de rigeur' as you put it so 'hautain' in a french way.
As I mentioned b4 in this thread; A Night at the "Village Vanguard" by Sonny Rollins (R.I.P.) had no chordal instrument playing on these recordings
BTW, if you'd listen to J.S. Bach Fugues in WTC you ONLY hear horizontal melodies; you don't hear 'vertical chords'. Although the horizontal lines IMPLY vertical chords, but they ain't.

Oi there’s only room for one counterpoint bore in this forum and it’s me haha.

Anyway, I think chords are actually more a rhythm thing.

So obviously there’s the rhythm guitar thing. The big bands were all about that. Freddie Green found a way to effectively square the circle - single note largely, but percussive.

But sometimes you need those fat 5 or 6 note chords even. Danny Barker style. Manouche jazz has those big chords.

It depends on the context. Some times the guitar needs to be almost like drums.

But then there’s the Peter Bernstein thing which is quite rhythmic and percussive as well as having hip voice leading.

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[supersoul]

I have heard people say that if you don’t sound bad when practicing it’s not really practice….

In one of his books Steve Lacy talks about the importance of finding a practice space where no one can hear you, so you aren't self-concious about sounding bad while learning.

[grahambop]

In one of his books Steve Lacy talks about the importance of finding a practice space where no one can hear you, so you aren't self-concious about sounding bad while learning.

You can always nip down to the local bridge…