Trying to put together a simple daily practice routine - help?

[AllanAllen]

(long post)

This is just my experience, so take the following with a some salt; do disregard any/all of it if this doesn't make sense to you.

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I generally try to steer clear of scalar/arpeggiated routines because of what I tend to do with them (and I can't help myself no matter how hard I try).

Back then, I'd come up with many of these 'The List To End All Lists' in terms of covering technique, picking, picking direction, scales, arpeggios, etc. Each time I created a list, it would be the most exhaustive thing ever, and I'd feel good about it, like I've just solved a great mystery of life with a never-before framework of practice. The last ever perfect list I created for myself was something similar to what Allan is doing (the Barry Harris stuff that Chris Parks says you have to do: thirds, triads, chords, add half-steps, dominant half-step rules, etc.)

But I never followed through with any of those lists for long. Maybe it's a discipline issue or I simply lack the grit to just stick to it. It's definitely this voice inside that keeps saying, "I've already figured out this perfect list, but it's a bit of work. Don't wanna do it now. It's ok, I can come back anytime to this list and do it. Just chill for now. I've got this. It's already perfect, it's already perfect. Just remember to return to it." And I never do. I let the complacency of having a perfect list be my perfect panacea to all my musical woes. It became my perfect opiate so much so that inaction was always the final result.

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I'm not saying I'm wiser than anyone here, but personally for me, the thing that kept my hands in great shape was the thing I happened to enjoy the most - learning tunes. They teach me so many musical and technical things.

Musical:

- what the best notes of a scale/arpeggio are
- how to sequence these notes
- which tunes have a similar contour

Technical things:

- how tunes are organised in CAGED shapes
- which tunes have a similar organisation and fingering

In my 2 years of playing, I have probably learnt about 70+ tunes. I can play almost all of them (except for bop heads) in all 12 keys. The way I remember melodies is categorising them. Each category has a logic to it (I won't elaborate unless you'd like me to.)

Here's a category of melodies that, to me, have the same organisation on the fretboard.

After You’ve Gone
Bye Bye Blackbird
Flying Home
Have You Met Miss Jones
If I Had You
Indian Summer
Lover Man Oh Where Can You Be
Poor Butterfly
Rose Room
The Days of Wine and Roses

Off and on, I would practise just this one category of tunes consecutively in one key, on one string set (say DGBE set). This my 'routine' when I feel like practising.

Doing this kept not only my hands in shape, but also my ears, my interval sense, and my 'mind's eye of the fretboard' got a great workout too. I can't even begin to describe the amount of musical/technical progress I made as beginner because it's so profound.

The category I listed above is only one of six categories I have. The more tunes I learn, the more categorising there is, the longer each category gets. And the fretboard opens up more and more each time. (A funny thing also happens: the more tunes I learn, the faster I learn new tunes.)

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I know scales/arpeggios part of music is important to you, but don't forget to allow the music part of music to teach you too. For me the best part is that it's a lot more fun than drills and routines and I remember these things better because they are actually really musical.

A long reply, for clarification.

I only have a list of what I did, not what I planed to do.

I started with one fingering for G that started on F#, my instructor showed it to me. Then I moved it around, then I added this thing he called Dorian. I didn't understand what he was talking about with what it was. But I learned it, and started to play both in 1234, 2345, 3456 pattern up and down. Then I did 123 234 345 456 because I asked about a Danny Gatton line that seemed to go on forever, but not spread across the notes as much as it had notes moving. If that makes any sense. It sounded like 300 notes ascending, but only went up 2-3 octaves.

I think by this point I stopped being able to make weekly lessons and went on my own, kids take a lot of time. But I had learned how to take an idea and practice it, and how to learn something by ear, even if it took me an hour to get 2 bars and they were almost always wrong. I knew what to do, and I knew it was possible because my instructor did it right in front of me.

Anyway, then I learned 3 other fingerings pretty close to Jimmy Bruno's from a book I literally found in the trash.

I started playing scales in 3rds because it was easier for me to visualize than the 6ths example in a Barney Kessell video I saw. Then I added triads because Jens Larsen said it was important. Then I had a pattern so why not do 7th chords. Those 2 octave arpeggios were too hard anyway, and Tim Learch said in a video that you can get a lot of mileage out of one octave.

Then Christian played something using Melodic Minor that sounded good (well, he played a thing that Wes might have, and explained it back to MM, or something this isn't the important part) so I started the same thing with that scale and someone else basically told me to man up about Barry Harris basics. So I do a little bit of those too.

But in no way did I start with a perfect list, it's just what I stumbled upon for the last 6-7 years. An individual day of practice is focused, but what I cover over a month isn't.

[James W]

Can we become amazing musicians without thinking critically?

You have to sit and figure something out and think about what’s going on and why you can’t just play it already before you sit down to just play it until it’s right.

Exactly. It's not the either/or you initially presented it as. You think critically and try hard over and over again, see what works, different strategies etc etc.

[AllanAllen]

You think critically and try hard over and over again, see what works, different strategies etc etc.

Yes

[pamosmusic]

Exactly. It's not the either/or you initially presented it as. You think critically and try hard over and over again, see what works, different strategies etc etc.

Ah right ...

Repetition is an aspect of practicing, but having some frameworks for problem solving is just as important.

That's what I said.

as opposed to "play the damn thing until it's right."

[James W]

This was what I meant about an either/or -

What’s academic about it?

And blunt is not the same as true. With all due respect … go ahead and play Donna Lee a bunch until it hits 220. Good luck and god speed.

Or think critically about some of the challenges it presents and solves them before you beat your head against a wall for two months. Generally that’s going to be the move.

[pamosmusic]

This was what I meant about an either/or -

Think critically about it before the brute force repetition?

Sorry man. I'm a little confused about what I did wrong on this one.

[James W]

Think critically about it before the brute force repetition?

Sorry man. I'm a little confused about what I did wrong on this one.

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

[AllanAllen]

as opposed to "play the damn thing until it's right."

I think it's a broader difference in mentally approaching the guitar. Like, a sculptor who looks at a piece of marble and reveals the statue inside it vs the contractor who looks at the same piece of marble and sees 6 counter tops.

[AllanAllen]

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

Can you play donna lee at 220?

[pamosmusic]

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

That's a great question. But "play the damn thing until it's right" would probably lead someone to do just that, no? I don't doubt that Jimmy Bruno has more to offer his paying students, but the pithy one-liners that make it out into the ether (from WAY more people than just Jimmy) are kind of damaging in this respect.

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but there's a huge number of folks out there -- some of them are students that have crossed my path, others are posters on this forum, etc -- who sort of write off whole levels of progress or styles of music because they just aren't cut out for them. But often this is the kind of practice they've done. They play it slow (usually not slow enough) and they just try to repeat it until they get it right, not realizing that all the mistakes they make are slowing the process down. And also not noticing small variations they're making in the way that they're playing (and in the right hand, it's often pretty considerable variance) and the muscle memory just never sets in.

[James W]

Can you play donna lee at 220?

Sort of? It's not yet dialled in. Bits of it need more work than other bits.

[pamosmusic]

I think it's a broader difference in mentally approaching the guitar. Like, a sculptor who looks at a piece of marble and reveals the statue inside it vs the contractor who looks at the same piece of marble and sees 6 counter tops.

You're probably right. I'd imagine I'm the counter top guy in this scenario?

But if we strip away the metaphor (and separate it from Jimmy specifically, because I don't know), it's often the mental approach of someone who hasn't had to work on their chops in a very very very long time because they put the work in forever ago. They absolutely worked on their technique but usually it was when they were very young and they just haven't had to worry about it in a long time.

That doesn't make their mental approach invalid, but it also makes it a tough fit for folks who don't have that same background.

[pamosmusic]

Can you play donna lee at 220?

I don't think he was mocking people who were struggling. Just wondering why I would have characterized anyone's journey as "beating their head against a wall."

[James W]

That's a great question. But "play the damn thing until it's right" would probably lead someone to do just that, no? I don't doubt that Jimmy Bruno has more to offer his paying students, but the pithy one-liners that make it out into the ether (from WAY more people than just Jimmy) are kind of damaging in this respect.

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but there's a huge number of folks out there -- some of them are students that have crossed my path, others are posters on this forum, etc -- who sort of write off whole levels of progress or styles of music because they just aren't cut out for them. But often this is the kind of practice they've done. They play it slow (usually not slow enough) and they just try to repeat it until they get it right, not realizing that all the mistakes they make are slowing the process down. And also not noticing small variations they're making in the way that they're playing (and in the right hand, it's often pretty considerable variance) and the muscle memory just never sets in.

Yeah I mean, I think Jimmy Bruno's advice might be tongue in cheek but it's a bit irresponsible if people take his advice literally. Especially given what you say (since I don't have your experience as a teacher).

It's good to practice in front of a mirror to analyse what you're doing. On the other hand, with classical guitar I never did settle on a good right hand position... or right hand technique for that matter. I guess I was possibly over-analytical where that was concerned. Still, that doesn't matter now.

[AllanAllen]

You're probably right. I'd imagine I'm the counter top guy in this scenario?

But if we strip away the metaphor (and separate it from Jimmy specifically, because I don't know), it's often the mental approach of someone who hasn't had to work on their chops in a very very very long time because they put the work in forever ago. They absolutely worked on their technique but usually it was when they were very young and they just haven't had to worry about it in a long time.

That doesn't make their mental approach invalid, but it also makes it a tough fit for folks who don't have that same background.

Actually, you're the artist.

I don't think I'm communicating my point well. The main thing, that we all agree on is focused practice is essential.

[pamosmusic]

Actually, you're the artist.

I think you've been tricked by the aesthetics of the whole thing. And that's kind of what I find frustrating about the whole shtick.

The contractor looks at the block and measures it and thinks about how best to utilize the material etc etc etc.

The artist says, "just carve the damn sculpture."

"Just play the damn thing until it's right" sounds very blunt and Tell It Like It Is or whatever, but it's very very very very much the point of view of the artiste. Baked into that attitude is some frustration with or confusion about people who can't just see the sculpture in the marble and make it come out.

[Christian Miller]

People usually try to practice things that are too long. This comes up all the time.

Productive practice might focus on a single bar or something.

The thing I have to condition all my students out of is always starting at the blinking beginning every time. No, go straight to thing you can't play and do that. No slowly. No that's the same speed as before - like this speed - (demonstrates). Do it three times perfectly, but slow. NO don't speed up on the third time, you think you got it, but it will trick you. Slow down the third time.

Why did you use different fingers that time?

Right back to the beginning, then.

And so on and so forth. Most people don't have any idea how to practice effectively. The ones that somehow intuit how to do it we call 'talented.'

[starjasmine]

Effective practice involves both the contractor mindset and the artiste mindset. Your inner artiste has to visualize the finished piece but your inner contractor has to figure out how to use the tools you have (or how to get the ones you need) to remove the rough edges to produce that piece.

Working out the issues methodically is the equivalent of the old adage "Measure twice, cut once." And your practice plan is your blueprint.

[Christian Miller]

Effective practice involves both the contractor mindset and the artiste mindset. Your inner artiste has to visualize the finished piece but your inner contractor has to figure out how to use the tools you have (or how to get the ones you need) to remove the rough edges to produce that piece.

Working out the issues methodically is the equivalent of the old adage "Measure twice, cut once." And your practice plan is your blueprint.

It's a trade.

[GuyBoden]

The Perils of being Self Taught. Julian Bream.

[AllanAllen]

Oh look, he’s doing those spider exercises I said I would skip.

You can probably infer something about my advice from that…

[pamosmusic]

Oh look, he’s doing those spider exercises I said I would skip.

You can probably infer something about my advice from that…

classical and jazz guitar are pretty different skill sets

[GuyBoden]

classical and jazz guitar are pretty different skill sets

Julian Bream did play a bit of Django, that's how he started playing guitar.
His classical technique had flaws, but was still a great talent. Very expressive.

[GuyBoden]

Some Pro Jazzers know how to practice.

[pamosmusic]

Some Pro Jazzers know how to practice.

I would wager almost all do