Trying to put together a simple daily practice routine - help?

[James W]

This was what I meant about an either/or -

What’s academic about it?

And blunt is not the same as true. With all due respect … go ahead and play Donna Lee a bunch until it hits 220. Good luck and god speed.

Or think critically about some of the challenges it presents and solves them before you beat your head against a wall for two months. Generally that’s going to be the move.

[pamosmusic]

This was what I meant about an either/or -

Think critically about it before the brute force repetition?

Sorry man. I'm a little confused about what I did wrong on this one.

[James W]

Think critically about it before the brute force repetition?

Sorry man. I'm a little confused about what I did wrong on this one.

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

[AllanAllen]

as opposed to "play the damn thing until it's right."

I think it's a broader difference in mentally approaching the guitar. Like, a sculptor who looks at a piece of marble and reveals the statue inside it vs the contractor who looks at the same piece of marble and sees 6 counter tops.

[AllanAllen]

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

Can you play donna lee at 220?

[pamosmusic]

Ok you're right, I should have read your post a little more closely.

What I will say though is I just wondered why you thought anyone would be banging their head against the wall getting Donna Lee up to 220?

That's a great question. But "play the damn thing until it's right" would probably lead someone to do just that, no? I don't doubt that Jimmy Bruno has more to offer his paying students, but the pithy one-liners that make it out into the ether (from WAY more people than just Jimmy) are kind of damaging in this respect.

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but there's a huge number of folks out there -- some of them are students that have crossed my path, others are posters on this forum, etc -- who sort of write off whole levels of progress or styles of music because they just aren't cut out for them. But often this is the kind of practice they've done. They play it slow (usually not slow enough) and they just try to repeat it until they get it right, not realizing that all the mistakes they make are slowing the process down. And also not noticing small variations they're making in the way that they're playing (and in the right hand, it's often pretty considerable variance) and the muscle memory just never sets in.

[James W]

Can you play donna lee at 220?

Sort of? It's not yet dialled in. Bits of it need more work than other bits.

[pamosmusic]

I think it's a broader difference in mentally approaching the guitar. Like, a sculptor who looks at a piece of marble and reveals the statue inside it vs the contractor who looks at the same piece of marble and sees 6 counter tops.

You're probably right. I'd imagine I'm the counter top guy in this scenario?

But if we strip away the metaphor (and separate it from Jimmy specifically, because I don't know), it's often the mental approach of someone who hasn't had to work on their chops in a very very very long time because they put the work in forever ago. They absolutely worked on their technique but usually it was when they were very young and they just haven't had to worry about it in a long time.

That doesn't make their mental approach invalid, but it also makes it a tough fit for folks who don't have that same background.

[pamosmusic]

Can you play donna lee at 220?

I don't think he was mocking people who were struggling. Just wondering why I would have characterized anyone's journey as "beating their head against a wall."

[James W]

That's a great question. But "play the damn thing until it's right" would probably lead someone to do just that, no? I don't doubt that Jimmy Bruno has more to offer his paying students, but the pithy one-liners that make it out into the ether (from WAY more people than just Jimmy) are kind of damaging in this respect.

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but there's a huge number of folks out there -- some of them are students that have crossed my path, others are posters on this forum, etc -- who sort of write off whole levels of progress or styles of music because they just aren't cut out for them. But often this is the kind of practice they've done. They play it slow (usually not slow enough) and they just try to repeat it until they get it right, not realizing that all the mistakes they make are slowing the process down. And also not noticing small variations they're making in the way that they're playing (and in the right hand, it's often pretty considerable variance) and the muscle memory just never sets in.

Yeah I mean, I think Jimmy Bruno's advice might be tongue in cheek but it's a bit irresponsible if people take his advice literally. Especially given what you say (since I don't have your experience as a teacher).

It's good to practice in front of a mirror to analyse what you're doing. On the other hand, with classical guitar I never did settle on a good right hand position... or right hand technique for that matter. I guess I was possibly over-analytical where that was concerned. Still, that doesn't matter now.

[AllanAllen]

You're probably right. I'd imagine I'm the counter top guy in this scenario?

But if we strip away the metaphor (and separate it from Jimmy specifically, because I don't know), it's often the mental approach of someone who hasn't had to work on their chops in a very very very long time because they put the work in forever ago. They absolutely worked on their technique but usually it was when they were very young and they just haven't had to worry about it in a long time.

That doesn't make their mental approach invalid, but it also makes it a tough fit for folks who don't have that same background.

Actually, you're the artist.

I don't think I'm communicating my point well. The main thing, that we all agree on is focused practice is essential.

[pamosmusic]

Actually, you're the artist.

I think you've been tricked by the aesthetics of the whole thing. And that's kind of what I find frustrating about the whole shtick.

The contractor looks at the block and measures it and thinks about how best to utilize the material etc etc etc.

The artist says, "just carve the damn sculpture."

"Just play the damn thing until it's right" sounds very blunt and Tell It Like It Is or whatever, but it's very very very very much the point of view of the artiste. Baked into that attitude is some frustration with or confusion about people who can't just see the sculpture in the marble and make it come out.

[Christian Miller]

People usually try to practice things that are too long. This comes up all the time.

Productive practice might focus on a single bar or something.

The thing I have to condition all my students out of is always starting at the blinking beginning every time. No, go straight to thing you can't play and do that. No slowly. No that's the same speed as before - like this speed - (demonstrates). Do it three times perfectly, but slow. NO don't speed up on the third time, you think you got it, but it will trick you. Slow down the third time.

Why did you use different fingers that time?

Right back to the beginning, then.

And so on and so forth. Most people don't have any idea how to practice effectively. The ones that somehow intuit how to do it we call 'talented.'

[starjasmine]

Effective practice involves both the contractor mindset and the artiste mindset. Your inner artiste has to visualize the finished piece but your inner contractor has to figure out how to use the tools you have (or how to get the ones you need) to remove the rough edges to produce that piece.

Working out the issues methodically is the equivalent of the old adage "Measure twice, cut once." And your practice plan is your blueprint.

[Christian Miller]

Effective practice involves both the contractor mindset and the artiste mindset. Your inner artiste has to visualize the finished piece but your inner contractor has to figure out how to use the tools you have (or how to get the ones you need) to remove the rough edges to produce that piece.

Working out the issues methodically is the equivalent of the old adage "Measure twice, cut once." And your practice plan is your blueprint.

It's a trade.

[GuyBoden]

The Perils of being Self Taught. Julian Bream.

[AllanAllen]

Oh look, he’s doing those spider exercises I said I would skip.

You can probably infer something about my advice from that…

[pamosmusic]

Oh look, he’s doing those spider exercises I said I would skip.

You can probably infer something about my advice from that…

classical and jazz guitar are pretty different skill sets

[GuyBoden]

classical and jazz guitar are pretty different skill sets

Julian Bream did play a bit of Django, that's how he started playing guitar.
His classical technique had flaws, but was still a great talent. Very expressive.

[GuyBoden]

Some Pro Jazzers know how to practice.

[pamosmusic]

Some Pro Jazzers know how to practice.

I would wager almost all do

[Reg]

Hey Chris... I probably posted this decades ago.... but

To play jazz Live.... You need to get your technique together. Your ears will follow.

Like 50 60 years ago... I was set up with a productive practice schedule... for guitar.( I need cover)... I took lessons from a working B-3 player as a kid.... older Black musician there is more, but who cares.

Start all daily practice with Spider drills... Played on each string from fifth position up to 12th. Then shortly after when your hands and picking begins to improve... play across strings.. 1 on 6th string, 2 on 5th, 3 on 4th string.
Then from top string down across strings, starting from 1st string

Drills
1234 2341 3412 4123
1243 2341 3421 4132
1342 2413 3124 4231
1324 etc..
1423 etc..
1432 etc..
1432

Scales
Maj. (with all modes) Play 2 octaves up and down in position moving up the fretboard.

I always worked on Chromatic and chromatic patterns

Synthetic Scales...
Whole Tone
Diminished
Melodic and Harmonic Min.
Harmonic Maj.
Pentatonics...
Etc... you can get them all from Berklee stuff, Mark Levine, David Berkman etc..

Chords... from all the scales. Inversions and what will become more important... all chords with lead lines or the note on top, which will lead you to be able to start learning how to Comp. And then open the door to "CHORD PATTERNS"... which is how we as jazz players comp and solo... Almost all single chords will become "Chord Patterns"

Sight Reading

Rhythmic studies

Tunes

Take the time to write all this material out so you will also understand what is implied and where it's from...which will lead to how things work or function together with different musical contexts, tunes. And how tunes can have different approaches to playing. Kind of like playing a Bb blues in Minor..

You'll find out where you need work... adjust as you improve.
Feel free to ask me anything.... I can cover... both in the practice room or performance.
Reg

[voxo]

dont do any of the above ..dive straight into transcriptions...plethora of stuff out there..Tabs and notation..before long youll be blowing like a jazzman...academic stuff id leave behind..unless you like exercises

[emanresu]

The routine I am happy with is this:
Every day the first thing to do after a tea is to pick up the guitar, spend 30-60 minutes just for getting a groove going.
Groove and the sweet snap into the fingers. This is the one thing that I have to do even if the world is burning down the same time.

And then there is all of the other things.

[chris32895]

So I went ahead and instead of overthinking my practice just practiced this AM. The standard I'm working on is Have You Met Miss Jones. I found all the stuff I crammed into a spreadsheet I did not want to do so I just practiced the tune itself by...

1. Playing the head in time (i was around 104bpm)
2. Playing the changes in time via shell voicings
3. Playing the head in time without looking at the chart
4. Playing the changes in time without looking at the chart (try to sing the head at the same time if possible. Bridge was tricky)
5. Try to play the head along with the root note of the changes in counterpoint. This was fun and difficult (once again at the bridge) but was rewarding and helped me understand the chords and "feel" the movement of the tune. This also helps me understand how chord melody is constructed.

The above took about 1.5hrs. I have the tune and changes memorized and feel I understand the changes a lot better. Next, I am going to try to arpeggiate the changes while sticking to a single position on the fretboard and move up a fret at a time to see if I can do that. I don't feel comfortable playing over certain chords in all areas of the fretboard so I feel this will help.

I think I was wanting to make a huge spreadsheet of all the stuff I wanted to practice because I've recently started lifting weights again and spreadsheets help me there. However, this is not working out - a lot more critical thinking is required. I still have a spreadsheet but all it tracks is the standard, the key, the BPM, length of practice, approach of practice, and any comments for that day. I think with this kind of stuff you probably need to be flexible.

Maybe I'm wrong and will change my mind in a couple days but for now I like this setup.