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Not sure if this will help anyone, but you never know...
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07-19-2025 10:45 AM
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Also worth mentioning that there's a 6 minute video about this picking motion in Troy Grady's Pickslanting Primer.
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On a lark, I asked Grok about picks best suited to this picking method.
Q: For guitarists who want to explore circular or circle picking technique what kind of picks (shape, thickness, size, brand) are recommended?
A:Circle picking, also known as circular picking, is a technique where the thumb joint bends on the downstroke and straightens on the upstroke, causing the pick to move in a circular pattern. This allows for speed and fluidity, particularly in fast alternate picking or intricate lead playing. The choice of guitar pick for this technique significantly impacts precision, speed, control, and tone. Below are recommendations for pick shape, thickness, size, and brand tailored to circle picking, based on the technique’s demands and general principles from guitar pick selection.Shape- Jazz III or Small, Pointed Picks: The Dunlop Jazz III is a top choice for circle picking due to its small size and sharp, pointed tip, which enhance precision and speed. The pointed tip allows for accurate string targeting, crucial for the rapid, fluid motions of circle picking. The smaller shape reduces the distance between the hand and strings, facilitating the circular motion and minimizing drag. Variations like the Dunlop Jazz III XL or John Petrucci Jazz III are slightly larger but retain the sharp tip, offering versatility for players who need a bit more grip area.guitartopreview.commusicradar.comthepickshous e.com
- Teardrop or Standard 351 with Pointed Tip: For players who find the Jazz III too small, a standard 351 shape with a pointed tip (e.g., Fender 551 or Dunlop Tortex Standard) can work. These picks are versatile and allow precise picking while providing a larger grip area, which can be helpful for maintaining control during the circular motion.ploutone.commusicradar.com
- Avoid Rounded Tips: Picks with rounded tips (e.g., some standard 351s or triangle picks) are less ideal for circle picking, as they produce a softer attack and less precision, which can hinder the clarity needed for fast, intricate lines.ehomerecordingstudio.comironageaccessories.c om
Thickness- Medium to Heavy (0.73mm–1.5mm): Medium picks (0.73mm–0.80mm) strike a balance between flexibility and control, making them suitable for circle picking’s fluid motion while maintaining precision. Thicker picks (1.0mm–1.5mm) provide greater stability and a fuller tone, ideal for aggressive or fast picking, as they resist bending during rapid strokes. For example, the Dunlop Jazz III in 1.38mm or Tortex in 0.88mm–1.14mm are popular for their rigidity.guitartopreview.comattakpik.comthepicksho use.com
- Extra Heavy (>1.5mm): Some players, especially in genres like jazz or metal, prefer extra-heavy picks (e.g., Dunlop Jazz III Black Stiffo or ChickenPicks Badazz III at 2.0mm+) for maximum control and a robust tone. These are particularly effective for circle picking on thicker strings or lower tunings, as they transfer more energy to the strings. However, they may feel less forgiving for beginners.chickenpicks.com
- Avoid Thin Picks (<0.60mm): Thin picks (0.40mm–0.60mm) are too flexible for circle picking, leading to a loss of control and a “flappy” sound that lacks the articulation needed for this technique.stringjoy.comattakpik.com
Size- Small to Medium: Smaller picks like the Jazz III (approximately 75% the size of a standard pick) are preferred for circle picking because they allow closer hand-to-string proximity, enhancing speed and accuracy. Medium-sized picks, such as the standard 351 shape, are also effective for players with larger hands or those who prefer a slightly larger grip area without sacrificing precision. Larger picks, like triangle or triforce picks, are less suitable due to their bulk, which can impede the fluid, circular motion.ehomerecordingstudio.comattakpik.comthepick shouse.com
Material- Nylon: Nylon picks, like the Dunlop Nylon Standard or Jazz III Red Nylon, offer flexibility and a smooth, warm tone, which can complement circle picking’s fluid motion. Their grippy texture helps maintain control during sweaty performances, though they wear down faster.guitartopreview.comkysermusical.com
- Tortex (Delrin): Tortex picks, such as the Dunlop Tortex Standard or Tortex Jazz III, are highly recommended for their durability, matte finish, and excellent grip. They produce a bright, snappy tone and are ideal for the precision and speed required in circle picking. The powdery texture prevents slipping during rapid strokes.musicradar.comguitarplayer.combedroomguita rist.com
- Ultex: Dunlop Ultex picks are stiff and durable, producing a bright, snappy tone even at thinner gauges. They’re popular among players needing precision for fast picking techniques like circle picking, though they may feel less grippy than Tortex.groundguitar.comguitarplayer.com
- Celluloid: Celluloid picks (e.g., Fender 351 or Wavelength 351) provide a warm tone and are less durable but can work for players who prefer a traditional feel. They’re less grippy, so they may not be ideal for intense circle picking sessions unless textured.musicradar.comguitarplayer.com
- Specialty Materials (e.g., Acrylic, Metal, Wood): Acrylic picks (e.g., V-Picks) offer a tacky grip when warm and a full tonal range but are less common. Metal or wood picks are too rigid or rough for most circle picking applications, as they can produce harsh tones or excessive drag.en.wikipedia.org
Brand Recommendations- Dunlop:
- Jazz III (Red Nylon or Black Stiffo, 1.38mm): A favorite for precision and speed, ideal for circle picking in jazz, metal, or rock. The sharp tip and small size enhance accuracy.guitartopreview.commusicradar.comguitarpl ayer.com
- Tortex Standard (0.73mm–1.14mm): Versatile for medium to heavy gauges, with a grippy texture and bright tone. The 0.88mm or 1.0mm versions are great for circle picking.guitarworld.comreddit.com
- John Petrucci Jazz III (1.5mm): Slightly larger than the standard Jazz III, offering a balance of precision and comfort for technical playing.guitarworld.com
- Ultex Jazz III or Standard (0.73mm–1.14mm): Stiff and bright, good for fast, articulate picking.groundguitar.com
- Fender:
- Wavelength 351 (Medium to Heavy, 0.60mm–1.14mm): A celluloid pick with an embossed grip pattern, suitable for players who prefer a warmer tone and a slightly larger shape. The pointed tip aids precision.guitarplayer.com
- 551 Shape (Medium to Heavy): A wider body with a sharper tip than the 351, good for rapid single-note lines in circle picking.musicradar.com
- Ernie Ball:
- Everlast (1.14mm): A durable Delrin pick with a longer shape, ideal for circle picking on thicker strings or extended-range guitars.guitarworld.com
- ChickenPicks:
- Badazz III (2.0mm+): A thick, small, jazz-shaped pick for players needing maximum control and a robust tone. Its beveled edges mimic pick slanting, easing the circular motion.chickenpicks.com
- ROMBO:
- Diamond (1.35mm tip, up to 2.65mm body): A variable-thickness pick with a polished tip for reduced friction and enhanced durability, suitable for precise techniques like circle picking.rombopicks.com
Additional Considerations- Beveled Edges: Picks with beveled edges (e.g., ROMBO Diamond, ChickenPicks) reduce string resistance, mimicking the feel of pick slanting and enhancing the fluidity of circle picking. This is especially helpful for maintaining speed without excessive effort.
- Grip and Texture: Circle picking requires a secure grip due to the rapid, repetitive motion. Picks with textured surfaces (e.g., Tortex, Max-Grip Nylon, or Wavelength’s embossed pattern) prevent slipping, especially during long sessions. Smooth picks like celluloid may require extra caution.guitargearfinder.comguitarplayer.com
- Experimentation: Since circle picking is highly personal, try a variety pack (e.g., Dunlop Tortex Variety Pack) to test different thicknesses and shapes. This helps identify the best fit for your hand size, grip style, and musical genre.guitarworld.comreddit.com
- Technique Tips: For effective circle picking, hold the pick firmly but not tightly, with only the tip exposed, to maximize control and minimize string drag. Practice small, controlled movements, anchoring your palm near the bridge for stability.yousician.comironageaccessories.comSummary
For circle picking, Dunlop Jazz III (1.38mm, Red Nylon or Black Stiffo) or Tortex Standard (0.88mm–1.14mm) are excellent starting points due to their small size, pointed tips, and grippy textures. Players seeking a slightly larger option can try the Fender Wavelength 351 (Medium to Heavy) or Dunlop John Petrucci Jazz III (1.5mm). For advanced players, ChickenPicks Badazz III (2.0mm+) or ROMBO Diamond (1.35mm tip) offer specialized features like beveled edges and enhanced grip. Medium to heavy picks (0.73mm–1.5mm) in Tortex, Nylon, or Ultex materials provide the best balance of control, tone, and durability. Experiment with these options to find the pick that best suits your hand, guitar, and playing style.
If you’d like, I can generate a chart comparing the recommended picks by shape, thickness, and material for a visual reference. Would you like me to do that?
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Yep, Jazz IIIs, red and black, max grip and normal, all the way for me.
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I didn't see Blue Chip mentioned in choice of picks.I have a jazz iii sized Blue Chip 1 mm in size.That pick just glides on flatwound strings with whatever picking style you choose to use.
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Mike Moreno's picking technique looks like it's mostly thumb and finger motion. That's thumb and middle finger though, unorthodoxly, so his index finger hides his thumb. But you can't see much wrist movement and it's definitely not elbow-based, so... He uses economy picking too.
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I use circular picking sometimes, but I never knew it had a name. I tend to switch to it when I need more speed. Watching older Herb Ellis videos seems to show that he used it. For me, moving just my thumb and index finger is quicker and easier than moving my whole arm or even just my wrist, but I'm not religious about any of it. Maybe I would be a better player if I were, but it's just not important enough to me to force myself to stick to one method. I just use what works at the moment.
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Yes, as people might have noticed, I have avoided using the phrase 'circular picking' because I'm not sure it accurately describes the motion, which in my experience is more a straight back and forth.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
I wouldn't describe myself as religious about it either but because I have found it relatively easy to achieve some good speed with such a neat and economical motion, I have encouraged myself to refine and develop this technique. So I am honing in on this particularly because I've had problems with wrist motions in the past - though now I suspect if I tried I could get wrist based motion going smoothly.
It is not unheard of for players to use more than one picking motion...
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Haha I could never understand standard alternate picking from the wrist. My pick would always get stuck in between the strings. And quite often, I would miss the string I was supposed to play. I had lots of accuracy and timing problems with the picking style that 92.456% of guitarists worldwide use. (shrugs)
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Yeah same here, except my problem with picking from the wrist was basically just string hopping, which would result in hitting the body of the guitar with the pick and generally having a bad feeling around my wrist area. In hindsight, when I first watched the Troy Grady video about string hopping and how to (supposedly) overcome it I sort of overreacted and my practice was reduced to just trying to do tremolo with a wrist-based motion for hours a day, which sent me back to classical guitar, not for the first or last time lol. I mean, while string hopping is an inefficient technique, it basically doesn't matter to use at a certain tempo and I guess it would take time to transition to a smooth efficient technique just through practice, but Grady's presentation of the problem didn't/doesn't exactly invite a level-headed response, and isn't aimed at someone trying to learn jazz guitar. Originally Posted by brent.h
One thing that appeals to me about using a wrist-based motion is that it's a similar one to the motion you use for funky strumming - and, like funky strumming, it is quite dynamic in its attack. I guess it's not a big deal to switch between the funky strumming and picking notes with the thumb/finger motion though.
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I agree that circular does not describe the way I do it. I just sort of fell into it, from watching Herbie and others, and trying it out. Moving just my thumb and index finger seems more efficient than moving my whole hand, or whole arm and hand. I just don't have the discipline to stick to one way of doing things.
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I think it was Pebber Brown who said Howard Roberts told him that the music dictates the picking. Pebber didn't have a beef with Troy Grady, but he did say that if you pick the way Troy advised early on (--Pebber's been dead a few years now), you will play that kind of music because that kind of picking is designed to play that kind of music---scalar playing, narrow intervals. Originally Posted by sgosnell
If one plays different kinds of music---say, a little country, some Swing, some jazz, funk, some ballads, a little bit o' soul, well, other techniques come into play.
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Something that I've become absolutely convinced of over the years is that the particular joints and muscles you use to move the pick is a very personal preference, but those choices "force" you to use certain solutions to problems.
For example, I have heard about circular picking for years. I've tried it, and no picking motion has ever felt more unnatural and clumsy to me. I think there are very real reasons for that. Advocates of circular picking always say that "it's just like writing with a pen." That doesn't help me much. I'm a lefty who plays guitar right handed, so my right hand has no muscle memory associated with writing. And even then, my writing motion doesn't really use fingers. It's mostly a wrist and forearm movement for me.
I also like to hold the pick between my thumb and the side of my index finger. Just about all the great circular pickers I know hold it between the pads of their index finger and thumb. It's a movement that just doesn't work for me.
The value of Troy Grady's work, in my opinion, is the fact that it actually moved past the basic "motion mechanic" description of picking. It used to be back in the day, if you asked how to get better at picking, all the answers you'd get would revolve around the motion. And there would be advocates for everything: wrist only, elbow, forearm rotation, fingers, palm up Benson style, you name it. And you could always find examples to support your pet method. Guys like McLaughlin, Benson, Bireli, Howard Roberts, they all used completely different methods but they all played at the highest level.
What Troy did was look past the physical description, and looked at what the pick was actually doing, almost like a geometry problem. What does the pick need to do in order to play this particular line? Once you have that, you look at what your "primary" motion is, and figure out how to do it from there. Then the answer almost presents itself.
If you are using a technique that primarily escapes in one direction (either on an Upstroke or a Downstroke), you only need one primary motion and maybe a secondary "escape" motion used occasionally for certain lines.
If you want a technique that escapes in both directions, you pretty much need to have a blended motion (a Primary + Secondary motion) to play with any kind of speed and accuracy without causing excessive fatigue.
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Try putting the upper side of your index finger under the third base line, and the tip of your thumb over the third base line... this means holding the pick by its edge rather than on the center line.
This goes well with circular picking because is gives the pick another dimension of movement; when the pick is deflected by the string, part of that becomes rotation about the "third base line" which recovers instantly and invokes natural feeling two-way pick slanting for faster clean articulation.
Try it, just hold the edge of the pick but let the string push some rotation; once you feel it, the switching of slant direction will develop just by listening for clarity.
In other words, you hold the pick off-center and reduce firmness enough that the deflection causes a slight added pick tilt component. The polarity of the tilt is correlated with the desired pick slant polarity and acts as a little feeling catalyst for two-way pick slanting. Your right hand fingers will figure out the mechanical details by themselves.Last edited by pauln; 07-25-2025 at 02:37 AM.
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That's too bad. I took to thumb-finger picking motion quite quickly. One thing I will say is that it's much more difficult to do if you're not anchoring at least one finger beneath the strings. In fact, in my experience experimenting with it, the more fingers you have anchoring beneath the strings on the body of the guitar (the pick guard) the easier or less difficult it is to do - but the thing is that you can't always have as many fingers anchoring because that sort of restricts mobility of changing strings, and, what's more, if you're picking one of the bass strings you'd probably want to anchor on one of the higher (in pitch) strings because it's a bit of a stretch otherwise to the pick-guard. Anyway, I am still stuck in single-string mode really with this, I have yet to really gain any fluidity with changing strings so far... Originally Posted by dasein
One of the amazing things about Pasquale Grasso's right hand technique is he does this with a 'floating' right hand - no discernible anchoring from the forearm, but maybe some light anchoring from the pinky beneath the strings perhaps?
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