Axe Fx III, Helix, or Boss GT 1000 for Metheny like jazz tones

[AdroitMage]

For those who have experience with them, which modelers would work best for coping Metheny like tones? I think it would be fun to do that and go through some of the Metheny songbook.

I hear there are pros and cons to the FRFR thing with a powered PA cab. What do you recommend for amplifying the modeler, a guitar cab or an FRFR?

[jorgemg1984]

Just to make things more confusing, Metheny uses a Kemper

[Christian Miller]

I always find posts discussions like this a bit odd, because Pat would sound like Pat through my rig. He’s kind of clever at that.

What is the Metheny sound to me? It’s all about the onset of the note. Very characteristic. That’s in the pick and the right hand.

I suppose if you are 90% there and want to get 99.99% the exact gear makes all the difference.

And which Pat tone? He’s had a number both on his own records and other people’s.

The bright size life tone for example? You’ll approximate it by using a nice reverb and a laminate guitar into clean amp. It’s a very generic sound, esp as everyone copied it more or less. You’ll get more or less that sound from any modeller. He probably hated it because that’s what everyone had on every ECM record so probably didn’t have much control over it. I think it sounds great.

But to make it sound more like Pat, well that’s a skills issue.

And then the extra 9.99% may come from working on the exact gear or emulating. Even then … I know people who have Pat Metheny sig guitars because they are good guitars and sound nothing like him for example. I have a 60s 175. Even when I jammed the toothbrush in it didn’t help.

Probably I’m no fun at all lol.

(Fwiw it’s not a chorus he used back in the 80s. It’s a short period stereo delay into a solid state amp (forget which one). The info is not that hard to find and I’m sure someone’s done a patch for the Helix or whatever.)

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[Alter]

All these modelers are similar, the more expensive you get quality will get marginally better. The biggest difference for me is the UI and the workflow, everyone will have their preferences, but you can get there with any of them (at least as close as a modeler can get..)

[garybaldy]

Just to make things more confusing, Metheny uses a Kemper

How did he manage in the 70s?

[jorgemg1984]

How did he manage in the 70s?

With one of those Yamaha solid state amps (or maybe Acoustic?) with EVs, and rack processors I've also read of him using an Henriksen at one point... I believe the two main contributors to his sound are a laminate thunk archtop and his unique articulation. After that, you'll probably be better served with a "flat" solid state amp amp than a Fender type one, but the starting point is the archtop and the articulation, and any decent modeler these days can give you that. Also, maybe turn the tone control down. IMHO.

[Christian Miller]

Metheny did roll off a bit, but he points out that the volume pot on his 175 didn't do that much. I would agree from my own experience, something like a modern Ibanez would give you much more of a sweep.

So it's probably subtler than one might think. In general I think excessive roll off is kind of a bad idea. You don't want to lose too much high frequency information. I don't associate his tone with a lack of treble.

Natural roll off comes from edge picking. Again, Metheny's right hand is worth a look. He uses a thin pick to simulate a thick pick. In many ways this is not dissimilar from George Benson even though it is achieved differently.

[Christian Miller]

Pat Metheny Picking

[skiboyny]

I always find posts discussions like this a bit odd, because Pat would sound like Pat through my rig. He’s kind of clever at that.

What is the Metheny sound to me? It’s all about the onset of the note. Very characteristic. That’s in the pick and the right hand.

I suppose if you are 90% there and want to get 99.99% the exact gear makes all the difference.

And which Pat tone? He’s had a number both on his own records and other people’s.

The bright size life tone for example? You’ll approximate it by using a nice reverb and a laminate guitar into clean amp. It’s a very generic sound, esp as everyone copied it more or less. You’ll get more or less that sound from any modeller. He probably hated it because that’s what everyone had on every ECM record so probably didn’t have much control over it. I think it sounds great.

But to make it sound more like Pat, well that’s a skills issue.

And then the extra 9.99% may come from working on the exact gear or emulating. Even then … I know people who have Pat Metheny sig guitars because they are good guitars and sound nothing like him for example. I have a 60s 175. Even when I jammed the toothbrush in it didn’t help.

Probably I’m no fun at all lol.

(Fwiw it’s not a chorus he used back in the 80s. It’s a short period stereo delay into a solid state amp (forget which one). The info is not that hard to find and I’m sure someone’s done a patch for the Helix or whatever.)

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I don't know. There is always something to be said about the sound in the hands of the player. All though I've never been a fan of Metheny's sound, It sounds pretty processed to me.

[Christian Miller]

I don't know. There is always something to be said about the sound in the hands of the player. All though I've never been a fan of Metheny's sound, It sounds pretty processed to me.

Maybe that’s part of the reason I’ve always enjoyed Pat the most as a sideman

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