Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5 tone

[ruger9]

Ok, I would not consider that a full, warm, round tone. At all. But others might think differently, and take your advice into consideration.

I know we all hear things differently, but considering that's a strat that is definitely "warm and round." Maybe what you are looking for is more like Wes Montgomery? "Jazz mud". Altho Wes isn't mud, alot of modern people going for the "warm round jazz tone" end up sounding like mud.

Maybe you should post a clip of the tone YOU think is "full, warm, round" tone?

[jorgemg1984]

I know we all hear things differently, but considering that's a strat that is definitely "warm and round." Maybe what you are looking for is more like Wes Montgomery? "Jazz mud". Altho Wes isn't mud, alot of modern people going for the "warm round jazz tone" end up sounding like mud.

Maybe you should post a clip of the tone YOU think is "full, warm, round" tone?

It took me one minute to find this on youtube

I would call that a "full, warm, round" on a strat.

I mean no offense or criticism. I didn't say that the clip posted here sounded bad but it does not sound "full, warm, round" at all, to my ears. Everyone is free to disagree.

[garybaldy]

It took me one minute to find this on youtube

I would call that a "full, warm, round" on a strat.

I mean no offense or criticism. I didn't say that the clip posted here sounded bad but it does not sound "full, warm, round" at all, to my ears. Everyone is free to disagree.

Jamie's great!

[jorgemg1984]

Jamie's great!

I didn't even knew him - just searched for "strat jazz tone" on YouTube. He sounds great!

[garybaldy]

I didn't even knew him - just searched for "strat jazz tone" on YouTube. He sounds great!

I've followed him on YT for quite some years. He's an inspirational young man.

[ruger9]

It took me one minute to find this on youtube

I would call that a "full, warm, round" on a strat.

I mean no offense or criticism. I didn't say that the clip posted here sounded bad but it does not sound "full, warm, round" at all, to my ears. Everyone is free to disagree.

How quickly you found the tone you are looking for on YouTube is irrelevant: because it's the tone YOU want to hear; how is anyone else supposed to know what YOU think is "round, warm, jazz tone"?

So know we know what you are looking for. He's using GFS pickups (nothing special). He's using 11s, which helps. He's using a plugin, not an amp... so if you're looking for that tone out of an amp, you'll have to go amp shopping to find what you want. Until then, turn the tone control on the guitar down a little. (or get yourself the same plugin, then you will have THAT tone).

It really is that simple. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

[jorgemg1984]

How quickly you found the tone you are looking for on YouTube is irrelevant: because it's the tone YOU want to hear; how is anyone else supposed to know what YOU think is "round, warm, jazz tone"?

So know we know what you are looking for. He's using GFS pickups (nothing special). He's using 11s, which helps. He's using a plugin, not an amp... so if you're looking for that tone out of an amp, you'll have to go amp shopping to find what you want. Until then, turn the tone control on the guitar down a little. (or get yourself the same plugin, then you will have THAT tone).

It really is that simple. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Ruger, I'll say this for the second time - I'm not the OP. I'm not looking for anything. Just trying to clarify that when someone claims getting a "round, warm, jazz tone" is as easy as changing a volume pot, in my opinion, it's not.

[ruger9]

Ruger, I'll say this for the second time - I'm not the OP. I'm not looking for anything. Just trying to clarify that when someone claims getting a "round, warm, jazz tone" is as easy as changing a volume pot, in my opinion, it's not.

I was replying to you, because you posted the video of a "warm, round jazz sound". I know you're not the OP. But you didn't think the video posted by the other member was "warm and round"... this is all opinion. It IS warm and round for a strat, IMO. So there you go... and I'll say this a second time: this is all perception & opinion. One man's warm and round is another man's mud. Another man's warm and round is still too bright to others. I can't tell you how many jazz players simply turn the tone pot (or even the volume pot) down on their guitar to achieve a "warm"(er) and "round"(er) jazz tone from their instruments. Things CAN absolutely be as simple as swapping out a volume pot (as illustrated in the video posted earlier by JS). Maybe not FOR YOU, but then we're back at opinion...

[jorgemg1984]

I was replying to you, because you posted the video of a "warm, round jazz sound". I know you're not the OP. But you didn't think the video posted by the other member was "warm and round"... this is all opinion. It IS warm and round for a strat, IMO. So there you go... and I'll say this a second time: this is all perception & opinion. One man's warm and round is another man's mud. Another man's warm and round is still too bright to others. I can't tell you how many jazz players simply turn the tone pot (or even the volume pot) down on their guitar to achieve a "warm"(er) and "round"(er) jazz tone from their instruments. Things CAN absolutely be as simple as swapping out a volume pot (as illustrated in the video posted earlier by JS). Maybe not FOR YOU, but then we're back at opinion...

I don't think it's all that subjective - by that logic I can play a strat in the bridge pickup, tone on 10, trough an Alnico Twin Reverb with the treble on 10 and say "hey, for me, this is warm and round". It's a subjective subject, but not that subjective. Anyway, I think the case rests here, at least for me.

[ruger9]

I don't think it's all that subjective - by that logic I can play a strat in the bridge pickup, tone on 10, trough an Alnico Twin Reverb with the treble on 10 and say "hey, for me, this is warm and round". It's a subjective subject, but not that subjective. Anyway, I think the case rests here, at least for me.

Nah, you're digging too deep, thinking too hard. But you do you.

[John A.]

What was that? This is some of my crappy playing of a vamp, I'm a B3 player, not a guitarist. This is with an 100k volume pot full up, and the no load tone is also full up so it is out of the circuit. It is recorded with a condenser mic which is brighter and more transparent than a dynamic mic. The pup also happens to be a 59 with an A2 in it.

Thx. The amp was a Peavey Classic 20 played thru a lil 8 inch open back cab. The guitar was a warmoth hardtail strat.

I was replying to you, because you posted the video of a "warm, round jazz sound". I know you're not the OP. But you didn't think the video posted by the other member was "warm and round"... this is all opinion. It IS warm and round for a strat, IMO. So there you go... and I'll say this a second time: this is all perception & opinion. One man's warm and round is another man's mud. Another man's warm and round is still too bright to others. I can't tell you how many jazz players simply turn the tone pot (or even the volume pot) down on their guitar to achieve a "warm"(er) and "round"(er) jazz tone from their instruments. Things CAN absolutely be as simple as swapping out a volume pot (as illustrated in the video posted earlier by JS). Maybe not FOR YOU, but then we're back at opinion...

Assuming that by "59" Jimmy meant that the pickup is a Duncan 59 Humbucker, that doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and round tone for a strat with a neck humbucker. To help you calibrate my assessment, here's my stock American Standard Strat with its original single coil pups:

Stream Soultrane by John Albin | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

It strikes me as lot warmer than Jimmy's sample, and I got there just by turning the (stock) 250k tone pot down a litlle. Bear in mind that Jimmy claimed that trial and error in choosing a pickup is pointless and people should just listen to him because he's an expert on the tone of pickup magnets ("You can quit being obstinate and listen to people who effing know what they're talking about because they teched heavily for years!"). I don't think that sample and that statement support each other very well.

[voyage]

I am the op who came here for help. And thanks to everyone for the very enlightening discussion.

[John A.]

John, can you say what pickups the aA2 and the A5 were?
For example, a Seymour Duncan 59 or?

A5: Kent Armstrong Six Shooter humbucker (one of KA designed MIK models, as opposed to hand-wound US-made models)
A2: Stew Mac Parsons Street (by many accounts, very similar to a Duncan Seth Lover).

[jorgemg1984]

Assuming that by "59" Jimmy meant that the pickup is a Duncan 59 Humbucker, that doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and round tone for a strat with a neck humbucker. To help you calibrate my assessment, here's my stock American Standard Strat with its original single coil pups:

It strikes me as lot warmer than Jimmy's sample, and I got there just by turning the (stock) $250k tone pot down a litlle. Bear in mind that Jimmy claimed that trial and error in choosing a pickup is pointless and people should just listen to him because he's an expert on the tone of pickup magnets ("You can quit being obstinate and listen to people who effing know what they're talking about because they teched heavily for years!"). I don't think that sample and that statement support each other very well.

OK, I feel a little less crazy now. That clip you posted would be warm and round on any guitar, more so on a strat (even if it's one with an humbucker) - so your "solution" could be classified as excellent advice for anyone with a strat seeking a warm and round tone.

And, yes, the original sample and statement don't match. That has been my entire argument.

[voyage]

I'm the op. Here are three approximations of the kind of tone I'd like. In the first, Joe Diorio is almost surely playing PAFs in his old 175 and I don't know what Pat Metheny is using in his Ibanez but both have great tones, in the second Beth Marlis (vice president of Guitar Institute of Technology in Los Angeles) is playing a Seymour Duncan Benedetto B6 in a Benedetto 16-B, and I don't know what Rick Stone is playing. I think Pat Metheny and Rick Stone are the closest to what I'm after.

[garybaldy]

I'm the op. Here are three approximations of the kind of tone I'd like. In the first, Joe Diorio is almost surely playing PAFs in his old 175 and I don't know what Pat Metheny is using in his Ibanez but both have great tones, in the second Beth Marlis (vice president of Guitar Institute of Technology in Los Angeles) is playing a Seymour Duncan Benedetto B6 in a Benedetto 16-B, and I don't know what Rick Stone is playing. I think Pat Metheny and Rick Stone are the closest to what I'm after.

Rick Stone's is a Comins with a KA 12 pole floater

[voyage]

Thank you. How did you know that?

[garybaldy]

Thank you. How did you know that?

Google! so could be wrong!

[John A.]

I'm the op. Here are three approximations of the kind of tone I'd like. In the first, Joe Diorio is almost surely playing PAFs in his old 175 and I don't know what Pat Metheny is using in his Ibanez but both have great tones, in the second Beth Marlis (vice president of Guitar Institute of Technology in Los Angeles) is playing a Seymour Duncan Benedetto B6 in a Benedetto 16-B, and I don't know what Rick Stone is playing. I think Pat Metheny and Rick Stone are the closest to what I'm after.

Judging by the color, DiOrio's 175 is late 60s or early 70s, which would be a "T-Top" rather than a PAF. My understanding is that T-Tops have A5 magnets. PAF's (which were made before production was fully standardized) are a mixed bag of Alnico variants; they can be A2, 3, or 5. I'm no where near discerning enough to tell how different PAF's and T-Tops are from each other. I believe Metheny's signature model has Super 58 pickups, which by some accounts have A3 magnets, and by some others can be either A3 or A5. The common denominator between those two guitars is that Ibanez designed the signature model to sound as close as possible to Metheny's 175 (he claims he can't tell which is which on recordings). So it's mostly factors other than the nitty gritty of the pickups that matter (e.g., dimensions, scale length, pickup placement, bracing, specific wood used, etc.).

Speaking of guitar construction, it just hit me that you said you're playing a 7-string. Every 7-string I've ever seen had a 24-fret neck. Does yours? If so, I think chasing pickup details is barking up the wrong tree. Because the pickup on a 24-fret neck is shifted almost an inch closer to the bridge than on 20 or 22 fret neck, no matter what kind of pickup you use it's going to sound more scooped/brighter than any flavor of 175-style guitar.

[jorgemg1984]

I'm the op. Here are three approximations of the kind of tone I'd like. In the first, Joe Diorio is almost surely playing PAFs in his old 175 and I don't know what Pat Metheny is using in his Ibanez but both have great tones, in the second Beth Marlis (vice president of Guitar Institute of Technology in Los Angeles) is playing a Seymour Duncan Benedetto B6 in a Benedetto 16-B, and I don't know what Rick Stone is playing. I think Pat Metheny and Rick Stone are the closest to what I'm after.

All those tones are great and all of them are archtop tones - it should be possible to get close with a 335, not sure how close...

[Jimmy Mack]

Back on track. Thank You.
I was gonna weigh in, but now I don't feel that I have to. Whew

[voyage]

The Edwards has 22
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The Eastman Elite 16-7 has 22 frets.
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The Grote has 22. Check the price, this is a great guitar.
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[voyage]

Yes. But I think this gets pretty close. This is the sound I hope to get out of my Edwards 335 7 but maybe a little darker. I don't know what pickups Stryker plays either but I think he plays an unmodified 347. In an interview he said he keeps the tone control all the way on.

[jorgemg1984]

Yes. But I think this gets pretty close. This is the sound I hope to get out of my Edwards 335 7 but maybe a little darker. I don't know what pickups Stryker plays either but I think he plays an unmodified 347. In an interview he said he keeps the tone control all the way on.

Yeah, I have some of his records and he gets a great tone out of a semi-hollow. Maybe a pickup swap would help? I guess he has the stock Gibson in there. BTW, which amp are you using?

[John A.]

Yes. But I think this gets pretty close. This is the sound I hope to get out of my Edwards 335 7 but maybe a little darker. I don't know what pickups Stryker plays either but I think he plays an unmodified 347. In an interview he said he keeps the tone control all the way on.

I stand corrected on 24 vs 22
Frets. If Stryker’s 347 is unmodified unmodified, they’re most likely Dirty Fingers pickups, which are something like 15k ohm humbuckers with ceramic magnets.