Relic Rant

[wintermoon]

I could be wrong, but I think the reason they stopped LP production in 1961 was that Paul was in the middle of a nasty divorce from Mary Ford. He cancelled his endorsement contract because the settlement Ford sought (and eventually got) was based on his future earnings.

I think Gibson sold all 1500 of the Standards that they made between ‘58 & ‘60. They only sold about 1/3 as many LP Customs, and I suspect the 3x5 numbers are no higher than the LPs. 500 LP Standards a year back then was probably about right for a guitar that expensive with limited utility. A Standard was $265 in 1960, a single pickup 175 was $250, a 175D was $275 and a 330 was also $250. For reference, a ‘60 Telecaster Custom was $239.

That's quire correct, but Paul's weren't exactly flying off the shelves at that point. Standards were priced less than customs then and the new SG's sported his name, either stenciled on or on the truss rod cover. But I'm certainly no expert on solid body guitars.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Relic simulation of edible mold: the camembert guitars

[Litterick]

This article from Billboard of 24th June, 1967 discusses the new rock groups and their search for new sounds from old instruments, something of a challenge for the instrument retailers. On the second page, the writer records British guitarist Tich's respect for the Les Paul:

"It's got a sound of its own. All of a sudden it's become a really popular thing. The quality is better than many of the ones made today; it's like an antique, it's only ten years old.

"When the Hollies came over, they spent their whole tour looking for this model. Any of the British groups, the Animals or any of them, would give anything for it."

On 13th January 1968, Billboard reported that Les Paul had made a new deal with Gibson to design five guitar models and amplifiers.

[docsteve]

Porky Panico, a well-known Chicago trumpeter? What a name.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

That's quire correct, but Paul's weren't exactly flying off the shelves at that point. Standards were priced less than customs then and the new SG's sported his name, either stenciled on or on the truss rod cover. But I'm certainly no expert on solid body guitars.

A Custom was $395 and a Standard was $265 in 1960.

What I don't understand is why they had the SG in the 1962 catalog as a Les Paul:



I don't have any Gibson catalogs between '62 and '66, and the same guitar is an SG in the '66. I thought LP canceled his deal with them at the end of 1960.

[John A.]

A Custom was $395 and a Standard was $265 in 1960.

What I don't understand is why they had the SG in the 1962 catalog as a Les Paul:



I don't have any Gibson catalogs between '62 and '66, and the same guitar is an SG in the '66. I thought LP canceled his deal with them at the end of 1960.

The '61 model (with the SG shape) was still called Les Paul. I don't know when in 61/62 they changed the name to SG, but maybe by then it was too late to change the catalog (and maybe there was an insert showing the change?), or maybe someone just missed it in the editorial/layout/production process. It's not a shock to see inconsistency between a catalog and an actual product line.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The '61 model (with the SG shape) was still called Les Paul. I don't know when in 61/62 they changed the name to SG, but maybe by then it was too late to change the catalog (and maybe there was an insert showing the change?), or maybe someone just missed it in the editorial/layout/production process. It's not a shock to see inconsistency between a catalog and an actual product line.

Since Paul’s contract was ended in 1960, I’m surprised that they hadn’t caught up with reality more than a year later. I wonder if LP got $ from sales as long as his name was still on the guitars and if that affected his social and economic problems.

He shoulda listened to more blues - it’s cheaper to keep ‘er

[John A.]

Since Paul’s contract was ended in 1960, I’m surprised that they hadn’t caught up with reality more than a year later. I wonder if LP got $ from sales as long as his name was still on the guitars and if that affected his social and economic problems.

He shoulda listened to more blues - it’s cheaper to keep ‘er

I am never surprised by the pervasiveness and persistence of error and inconsistency.

[customxke]

Since Paul’s contract was ended in 1960, I’m surprised that they hadn’t caught up with reality more than a year later. I wonder if LP got $ from sales as long as his name was still on the guitars and if that affected his social and economic problems.

He shoulda listened to more blues - it’s cheaper to keep ‘er

I believe Les Paul’s relationship with Gibson paused in 1961/62, not 1960.

[AllanAllen]

He shoulda listened to more blues - it’s cheaper to keep ‘er

Wasn't he an abusive alcoholic? I don't think it was his choice.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I believe Les Paul’s relationship with Gibson paused in 1961/62, not 1960.

I've seen it described as having been in '60, '61, '62 and '63. I'm not convinced that anybody knows for sure. But they sold about 500 Standards and 250 Customs in 1960. They sold about 100 J200s a year from the late 50s through most of the '60s. So the LP wasn't doing too badly and I have a hard time believing that they stopped making LPs in 1960 because of low sales volume alone.

Les Paul & Mary Ford finally divorced in 1964. So the contract thing could have been in any of the years from '60 to '64. Crazy!

[wintermoon]

I've seen it described as having been in '60, '61, '62 and '63. I'm not convinced that anybody knows for sure. But they sold about 500 Standards and 250 Customs in 1960. They sold about 100 J200s a year from the late 50s through most of the '60s. So the LP wasn't doing too badly and I have a hard time believing that they stopped making LPs in 1960 because of low sales volume alone.

Les Paul & Mary Ford finally divorced in 1964. So the contract thing could have been in any of the years from '60 to '64. Crazy!

It was always my understanding that Les Paul Standard sales were decreasing starting around the mid 50s until the SG model was introduced in late '60 right after Standards were discontinued. I recall that Les' contract w Gibson was for 10 yrs, '52- '62 and Gibson decided to boost sales w the redesigned SG, a move that Les disapproved of. The 2 yr period of burst production (late '58-late '60) was not successful from a sales standpoint. If there was more demand they obviously would've made more to meet that demand. Les was going through the divorce but that didn't change his contract status. I'm pretty sure his name appeared on SGs until that contract expired.
But again, there's guys that know way more details about them than I can remember, though I'm sure an internet search would clear things up to a degree.

[wintermoon]

I found this @ 5:00 though I don't know how definitive it is.

[John A.]

Wasn't he an abusive alcoholic? I don't think it was his choice.

He sued her for divorce on grounds of cruelty and adultery. Many sources say she was an alcoholic; none seem to say he was (at least not that I can find via google).

[Litterick]

But again, there's guys that know way more details about them than I can remember, though I'm sure an internet search would clear things up to a degree.

No, it would not. The guys who know are vastly outnumbered by the guys who have heard.

[customxke]

No, it would not. The guys who know are vastly outnumbered by the guys who have heard.

Not to mention Les Paul's own penchant for, er, storytelling.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The guys who know are vastly outnumbered by the guys who have heard.

…and almost all of the former are now reunited with Les.

[pauln]

A while back a guy was writing about meeting Jeff Beck after a show. They were in a hallway with his Les Paul, one of the old super valuable ones, leaning against the wall. When JB returned to the Green Room, he just grabbed the guitar by the tuning keys and walked off dragging it behind him across the concrete floor (?!!)...