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Hello all. So I took a plunge and picked up a sight unseen 59 reissue 175 VOS, 2016. After a weekend of painstakingly going over every detail, followed by a couple of sleepless night of playing my fingers off, I'm quite satisfied I got a really good one. It fits me well. And Reeeeally happy with the acoustic voice with JS 13s. If I can get over my likely overblown hangup of stainless steel devouring frets, I'll try my preferred and most thunky labella jazz flats to get a little more of that pass/virtuoso acoustic sound.
I do want to replace the stair step saddle. It looks like a drunk beaver cut the string slots. Sloppy and unnecessarily deep. Intonation is very good however.
Is there a recommended source for a new saddle? I don't particularly care about original specs. I'd be OK with oem style stair step, or a more graceful Benedetto style. Not so keen on a Tom. Stew Mac has both. The current base makes good contact all around, though I assume new saddle should go with a new, fitted base?
Also, ebony vs rosewood? I assume rosewood is warmer, ebony brighter/more articulate? Or it really doesn't matter much?
Thank you in advance. I try not to get too deep on the weeds with this stuff, but the voice of experience is always insightful.
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02-06-2024 01:35 PM
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Ebony and Rosewood both are good not a huge difference in sound. All in tunomatics get replaced I carve a new ebony saddle with the gradual sloping compensation. Intonation for me is not a problem and I hear pretty good. A drop in replacement is not to be found due to the distance between the post you have to carve a new one. I do them all the time.
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I like rosewood best for my jazzguitars (also for my Japanese ES-175 copy). But on my ES-330 clone (DIY), a TOM with nylon saddles brought that guitar right into jazz territory!
My 1950 ES-125 is probably my guitar closest to your 175. Rosewood for that as well.
Check my ES-125 vs my ES-330:
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So if I want to ditch the tunomatic there's not a drop in? Dang. What's up with the post width? Was just thinking about swapping in a wood saddle.
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Just get a new rosewood saddle including the foot. I used a $25 made in India one on my ES-125 and it’s perfect. Originally Posted by Spook410
I have bought several $7 ones on AliExpress (rosewood and ebony) for my cheapo Ibanez AF55 but honestly, they are fine, look authentic and I would have no problem putting them on a much more expensive guitar.
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Yea.. I know but thanks for noting that. I tend to like the $35 - $50 variety better. Not sure what some of the cheaper ones are made of and I've experienced post lean on some cheap ones. Not hard to install. Would just be nice to avoid the sanding/fitting by dropping a wood saddle on the existing base. Especially since I'm not sure how much difference a wood saddle is going to make on my plywood Gibson ES175. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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I've ordered some of the Allparts ones. $40 for the bridge base and the saddle. Ebony and rosewood are both available. In three different Gibson guitars, the saddles were direct, drop-in replacements to the stock bridge base. Just needed to be notched for the strings.
You didn't happen to buy that 175 from Guitar Chimp did you? I had my eye on that one for quite a while but kept telling myself "I don't need another guitar".
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Thanks Deacon mark, and everyone else that has chimed in.
-Andrew. Yup that was me. Jared from Guitar chimp is a decent guy. Before any major purchase like this, I at least want to talk over the phone if I can't play in person. Feel I can get a better read. He was honest, down to earth, and friendly. The description was accurate, shipped and packed well. No complaints.
Guitar as I said is outstanding-does not have the super chunky neck. Closer to my 2012 LP studio....that's probably a good thing for my sloppy thumb hooking
And I didn't need it either, but then I thought "do I really need three equipment trailers"?
Back to saddles
So is post lean typically due to loose tolerances between the saddle hole diameter and the post? My posts are 90 to the base, and the base sits well. The saddle has some play on the posts. I can physically induce slight forward lean, though it stays true unless
I intentionally nudge it. I suppose a dried out saddle verse a plump humidified one could cause this as well?
Anyway, sounds a simple thing to remedy by the replies. I'll probably try a rosewood all parts saddle and go from there.
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A saddle sold as a replacement for a Gibson should be a drop-in, identical to the post spacing of the TOM. I can't guarantee that, though. You almost always get a base and saddle in a set, but it's quick and easy to try the saddle on the original base and see if it fits well enough. I would certainly try, because it's sort of a pain to do all the sanding necessary to fit a base to a guitar.
The posts should fit into the base tightly, and vertically. Over time, though, the holes in the base can become enlarged, especially if holding a heavy TOM saddle. You can live with it, partially fill the holes with narrow, thin strips of wood, such as a toothpick, or use the new base after you fit it, your choice. I've seen holes partially filled with glue, epoxy, and God knows what else, but I don't recommend doing that.
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Thanks sgosnell. I do like working on my guitars when needed. Have to understand how things work to make them mine, however I'd much rather play them in the limited personal time I have. I'll probably swap it out next string change. If the new one isn't a spot on fit with the base I'll learn a new skill to add to the quiver. Can't be much harder than fitting 1911 internals.
It's one of those "it's fine but I bet I could do it a bit cleaner" minor quibbles in an overall wonderful guitar, I'm just going to enjoy it until my tomastiks wear out. So like next year sometime
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Fitting a new base is a lot easier than say, a nice Ed Brown safety. Originally Posted by StoneWaller
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A slick eb sf is a beautiful thing. Originally Posted by Spook410
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I haven't fired an M1911 in a very long time. It was still the standard sidearm when I got out, but the .38 revolver had been the issue for helicopter crews. I think I last used an M1911 on the pistol team in the 82d Airborne in about 1970. It's a great weapon, and very accurate if one knows how to use it properly. It's big advantage is that it always works, no matter how it has been abused.
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If you contact luthier Steven Holst, he can make a bridge of any style you like. If you send him the existing bridge, he can match the contour of the base, and match the intonation of the slots on top.
archtop guitar luthier Stephen Holst
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Nice playing and nice tone from both guitars. The kit guitar sounds surprisingly good. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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Picked up an allparts rosewood and got it fitted last night. Saddle dropped right in and I lapped the base for the experience of doing it, though Im still using the original.
(replacement is solid. Couldn't hear a difference really)
Thanks all for the recommendations.
What did make a fairly dramatic tonal difference was flipping the neck pickup ring around and leveling it out with the strings. The off kilter pitch caused much twitching in my builders eye. (I've read the various threads/theories of why). Kind of a hassle, but well worth it. If I had one complaint about the MHS in the neck was that it seemed a little bright for my liking. After leveling it's like a different pickup. Warm, wooly, and darker with more output. I can only assume Gibson does the slant for a reason, (maybe to be more single coil sounding?) but I much prefer the tone this way.
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I also dislike having a pickup tilted. It's fine to tilt one a little end to end to balance the string volumes if there are no polepieces, but side to side I like having it parallel to the strings. Some may prefer the sound of a tilted humbucker, but I'm not one of them.
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I love my 175 VOS, but had the same issues with the pickup ring and the slant. I pulled mine off and did the old "sandpaper over the top" routine to shape the reversed ring. The tonal difference was subtle, but helpful.What did make a fairly dramatic tonal difference was flipping the neck pickup ring around and leveling it out with the strings. The off kilter pitch caused much twitching in my builders eye. (I've read the various threads/theories of why). Kind of a hassle, but well worth it. If I had one complaint about the MHS in the neck was that it seemed a little bright for my liking. After leveling it's like a different pickup. Warm, wooly, and darker with more output. I can only assume Gibson does the slant for a reason, (maybe to be more single coil sounding?) but I much prefer the tone this way.
What made more of a change for me however, was switching from the stock rosewood bridge to a TOM. Really opened up the sustain and clarified the tone without making it much brighter.... much more useful range of sounds for me. Don't know that I would ever go back to a rosewood bridge, at least on this guitar. Will be interesting to see how you assess the difference in tone with your new bridge, versus the TOM.Last edited by yebdox; 02-14-2024 at 12:36 AM. Reason: updated "TOM"
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What is a "TOS" ?
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Ya it was a bit of a hassle, but not too bad. I wanted a 175 specifically for the short sustaining, thunky 175 thing it does so well. I'll probably keep the rosewood. It's one flavor, but one I quite like. Sold a fantastic ss15 for that. Have a few tonepros laying around if I ever feel froggy.
I'm fascinated how impactful slight changes like these can make on any guitar. I use one always on pedal - a Jr barnyard. With the pickup slanted, I couldn't really get that reedy octal breakup unless I dimed the blend- which sounded not so great. Leveled out without changing the overall pickup height from before I can dial the blend way back and it sounds absolutely fantastic.
It can be a rabbit hole though, so I'm done tone chasing with this new addition, and ready to get back on track to learning and playing. Gear fiddling for me can really stagnate progress if I'm not careful. Forever curious. But having tone that's not "there" can be equally distracting. Gotta find that balance.
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Rich Severson advocates strongly for putting small washers underneath the pickup ring, claiming it improves the tone. I haven't tried that yet, but maybe someday. Most of my pickups are floaters, though.
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I like him. He has a lot of clever ideas. Thanks for the tip. It does seem to open up acoustically a tad more. I used very small rubber O rings.
Gibsons and I have a funny relationship. I can move through guitars like a stripper moves through sugar daddies, but the few Gibsons I've owned have a way of sticking around, and they're all modded or have components swapped. I'd never think of doing similar with a Sadowsky or Benedetto, but a LP or or this 175 just begs me to make it my own. Kinda like Metheny and his pick guard less, duct tape, toothbrush special.
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Did a search for 'TOS Bridge'. Just got back links for Star Trek Enterprise.. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I recognise that process of making a guitar your own! I have become better at it ovr the years and nowadays I don’t even hesitate to take a file and sanding paper to round off the fret board edges. Originally Posted by StoneWaller
A few of my own tricks that I now use and usually make every guitar better (disclaimer: “better” as in: more suited for me personally):
- put a set of Thomstik Swings (flatwounds) .012
- setting the neck almost dead straight
- adjusting pickup height so to distance between top of the pole piece and bottom of the string is 1.6mm
- rounding off the fretboard edges
- for both humbuckers and P90s: installing Alpha 500K log pots in “modern” wiring configuration with a treble bleed (0.001uf pararel to 150k) on the volume pot (this somehow comes closest to the way my 1950 ES-125 with “50ies wiring” operates, funny enough just hooking up modern pots in a “50ies wiring” configuration doesn’t!)
- replace saddles of TOM bridges for nylon
- if floating archtop bridge: rosewood
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TOS = The Original Series, the one with Kirk and Spock. Originally Posted by Spook410
TOM is Tuneomatic, VOS is Vintage old stock. Don't think I've seen TOS in this context? Maybe it's a Typ-O Suspected
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