Ibanez AF125

**abracadabra** · 05-24-2010, 04:33 PM

I have the AF105, which is the same as the AF125 but without some of the fancy hardware. Gets a great tone with neck pickup, tone set pretty bassey, volume slightly off max, through the JC Clean channel of a Cube20x.

Edit: and with Chromes

**Senior** · 05-24-2010, 04:42 PM

I also have the AF-125. It came with 2 bridges. The second one is made of wood. Put it on and you will have a totally different guitar and it will be darker.

**high** · 05-28-2010, 07:46 AM

i have the wooden bridge in my af125

strings are 12 flatwound chromes

yesterday i played my guitar in a cube 60, back to back with a peerless jazz city.I swap theses guitars many times, settins on the amp were exactly the same.

well, to my ears peerless was better with fuller tone, better playability, , but my artcore was not bad , just worse than peerless.If i didnt played them back to back, i will be happy with the af125

i used a jazz pick with these 2 and it was a world of difference.Before i played with dunlop 1.5, this is where the brightness came from.

I think i must buy a decent guitar amp

**Gibson L4CES** · 05-28-2010, 09:26 AM

I own an Ibanez Artcore 105nt. I would concur with the OP regarding the sound of the original pups. Mine has the single floating pickup and I found it to be very bright and thin. Even with the treble rolled off, I was not happy with the sound. I made some modifications that produced a more acceptable sound. 1. Replaced the pickup with a Kent Armstrong floating PU. 2. Used the rosewood bridge. Replaced the pots, and the capacitor. 3. I use Thomastic-Infeld 12's. I am not sure I would do a complete electronic tradeout with a two pickup model, but would consider upgrading the neck pickup along with the pots and caps. It takes a bit of time, patience and soldering, but apart from the pickup it is not too pricey a mod.

**naïFguitar** · 06-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gibson L4CES

I own an Ibanez Artcore 105nt. I would concur with the OP regarding the sound of the original pups. Mine has the single floating pickup and I found it to be very bright and thin. Even with the treble rolled off, I was not happy with the sound. I made some modifications that produced a more acceptable sound. 1. Replaced the pickup with a Kent Armstrong floating PU. 2. Used the rosewood bridge. Replaced the pots, and the capacitor. 3. I use Thomastic-Infeld 12's. I am not sure I would do a complete electronic tradeout with a two pickup model, but would consider upgrading the neck pickup along with the pots and caps. It takes a bit of time, patience and soldering, but apart from the pickup it is not too pricey a mod.

I enjoyed your assessment of the AF105nt's strengths....and how you've tweaked the tone.

I've got one.. and one of the pots is a little noisy; thought it might be excuse to upgrade components...and maybe the pup.

Where do you buy good quality pots...and are all pots created equal? Who advised you on what capacitor to buy?

And where did you find the replacement pup?

thanks a ton,

naïFguitar

**manu68** · 08-20-2010, 08:00 AM

I own a AF125

I have installed the wood bridge . "Night and day" regarding the Jazz type of sound.
I use mainly the neck Humbucker with volume 90%, and tone 60%-70%

I play on a roland cube 30X.
Model JC-120 ; Blackface or even acoustic (sounds good with the ibanez)

Bass 9-10h / Middle 17h / Treble 9h

**high** · 10-04-2010, 02:29 AM

I have an artcore AF125 and i just bought an Epiphone Broadway. Ibanez is a 2008 model and epi 2010. Epi is a 17 guitar and ibanez 16
These 2 budget guitars are very popular for people who want a cheap good guitar, , and often they ask which one is better .

So, i want to share with you my thoughts.
Ibanez artcore custom is a better quality guitar.Workmanship, freatboard, construction, finish, everything is perfect on this ibanez.Its like it is a more exspensive guitar.Playability is also great.

Epi on the other hand, is not so good.Its not bad, but ibanez is a step above, maybe two.
I put a flashlight inside the f holes...ibanez is perfect ...wood block under the neck and bracing under the top ...all perfect.

Epi is a mesh inside, the wiring, the woodblocks...its not an ibanez

AND NOW....we forget the sound of each guitar.I think that is the main reason choosing a specific guitar..

.Unpluged they have the same volume, maybe ibanez has more volume(weird because is smaller)but ibanez sounds more like a banjo....epi sounds sweet and mellow.

When pluged in, epi is cleary a winner, it sounds fantastic, honestly i cant beleive how good it sounds,

Ibanez is more midrange focused, sounds narrow and tight, epi has more highs and lows , bass strings reminds me a contrabass and highs are clear, full and mellow, this guitar is so sweet.

I say again, i dont expecting the broadway sound to be so good.

So, broadway is the winner for me

**Drifter** · 10-04-2010, 10:42 AM

Very interesting. What do you think makes the difference in sound? The pickups? Wood quality?

**life_with_a_song** · 10-04-2010, 10:49 AM

It's good to read this, high. I agree with your assessment. I had one of the Epi Zephyr Regents maybe fifteen years ago--the one with the floating pickup. Anyhow, somehow I let it go--probably because I went up in price range for subsequent archtops. About two years ago I watch itching to try out one of those af125s, and got my hands on three at a music store while on vacation. Construction and appearance looked marvelous--but then I plugged them in and just put them back onto the rack. I actually have preferred the lower-line models more lately that have come into a couple of shops in my town--the af80 (maybe?), and then an af75 that had the playability of a much more expensive guitar.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-04-2010, 10:55 AM

My guess is the pickups have the biggest factor in tone.

The broadway would be a longer scale instrument, and I think they ship with a wooden bridge instead of a metal-on-wood tune-o-matic. That would definitely account for the epi having a more pleasing acoustic tone (as would the bigger box--big doesn't necessarily equal volume, but it can equal tone)

Acoustic tone can often (but not always) foreshadow plugged in tone.

**mike_k** · 10-04-2010, 11:36 AM

I own an AF125, which I love. I have not compared it to a Broadway other than a few minutes in the stores. I am wary to comment on such a comparision because I find that these guitars are never set up with a decent enough guage string to make a worthwhile assessment regarding tone or playability. I will agree that the fit and finish of the Ibanez is superior to the Epi.

In response to Mr. B, the AF125 has a 25.5" scale and comes with both an all-wood bridge and a tune-o-matic. I have left the tune-o-matic on mine becuase I like the convenience when setting intonation. Thus, I have not been able to guage what the tone is like with just the wood bridge.

Regarding the pickups, the AF125 has a mellow rounded tone. I also have and AFS75T, and I find that it is easier to dial in a warm jazz tone on the AF125. Those are my 2 cents for what they are worth.

All the best,
Mike

**mr. beaumont** · 10-04-2010, 11:55 AM

I stand corrected--I was under the impression that all of the Ibanez Artcores were a 24.75" scale.

**mike_k** · 10-04-2010, 12:03 PM

Ok, after you called me out on the scale length, I decided to look it up. Mr. B, you are correct. The scale lenght on the AF artcores is 24.75. Mea culpa. For some reason though, the length does feel longer than that of my Les Paul (also 24.75).

**nado64** · 10-05-2010, 05:12 AM

I share the opinion of high.

I don't think the difference comes from the pickup.
On the paper, ibanez has a better pickup.

Woods are not the same, all maple for Ibanez.
The top of the Epiphone is in spruce.

And My Ear prefers the top in spruce.

**woyvel** · 10-05-2010, 06:52 AM

I'm with Nado on this. The pickups in a 125 are Super 58's and they're very sweet sounding when dialed in. I'd say the spruce is making a difference. Maple is generally brighter. The Broadway may be a little bigger also, but sure.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-05-2010, 10:12 AM

I'm sticking to my guns that something else is up aside from wood--they're both plywood guitars caked in about a 1/4" of poly. Wood's a little further down the list of big tone changers here--Ever hear a Gibson 175? Nobody would say the maple's making that brighter!

Looking at a picture of the Ibanez, I'm struck by how much neck is "on the body," and how much closer the neck pickup looks to the bridge than on the epiphone...aybody have acess to these guitars who could provide a measurement? I think there's something to that.

**Drifter** · 10-05-2010, 12:57 PM

Interesting observation, Mr. B. Another factor surely is, that every guitar sounds different. I've played another AK105 than my own and it did sound different, better in fact

, more open and woody. Maybe high has a great Epi and a not so good Ibanez. I'm not saying that his findings could have been vice versa but they might well have been less obvious.

**Big Ron** · 10-05-2010, 01:13 PM

I own an Epi Broadway. Bought it used from a guy in Chicago who said it was perfect condition (it was) and it has had Gibson 57 Classic and Lolar jazz pickups installed in it (could be, haven't checked).

I bought the Epi used because it was a great deal for the price; but, only after checking at the Sam Ash store in Atlanta. The folks there were great. I demo'ed every jazz box under $3,000 they had in the store. Washburn, Ibanez, Epi etc. No Gibsons or hand made and expensive ones.

I am a big guy, and personally I liked the body of the Eip better than the smaller body of the Ibanez. I concur that the Ibanez is made with high quality, but I didn't see a lot of difference in the Epi quality. I would think for mass produced guitars in overseas factories, they are both top line instruments.

What REALLY swung the axe (pun intended) was the tone of the Epiphone standard pickups and all at the Sam Ash store. I left preferring the Epiphone both for sound / tone and beauty. It's all decked out with fancy finish and inlays etc. I also preferred the natural finish to a color.

Had I not already had a lead on the used Epi I would have bought the new on from Sam Ash. I really had to agonize over used (at a lower price) and new and out of the box perfect. As the seller told me about the pickup upgrade I decided to try the used one.

So far it is just great. I would still like to have a high dollar jazz box, although that would be a little like Benny Hill dating a super model, but as a player the Epi has been just fine. To further confuse the issue, I installed a Bigsby Gold B7 tremolo with the rod style Chet Atkins arm on it, onto the Epiphone. Also went with a gold roller bridge and may come up with some locking tuners soon.

Right now I have the Epi set up with 12 gauge Chrome flatwounds and it plays great and sounds great.

I'll be playing the offertory hymn at our Church this coming Sunday with it.

Big Ron

**woyvel** · 10-05-2010, 10:51 PM

Mr. B, I always do respect your opinion, however when it comes to acoustic guitars, the maple tops are generally brighter than spruce, and I stand by that. The amount of goo on the guitars, because they're not high end American made products, may also play into the equation, as it subtly affects the weight and top vibration.

Ever hear a Gibson 175? Yes, in fact I had the pleasure of playing a new one alongside the Epi version and also a Broadway just last week. Yes, there was a remarkable difference. There might have been less of a difference if all the other guitars hadn't had .09's on them, but I'm sure that ES-175 was going to still win hands down. 2nd for me was actually the Epi ES copy at $3000 less. I didn't plug anything in though.

Also, as stated above, one guitar can differ from the next even if it's the same model. Ever play a few Martin D28's? Even two new ones side by side can have a noticeable tone difference.

**nado64** · 10-06-2010, 03:55 AM

If the wood does just a little difference,
why guys buy a L5 rather than a broadway ? Real question !
The price is ten times more expensive ! I don't think it's for the pickup, the finishes or for the "made in usa".

The woods are the same, maple and spruce.
The woods on the L5 are just a better quality.

Each times, I try many hollow-body guitars without knowing the "overview", I prefer the guitars with the top in spruce. I don't know why but it's like this.
Perhaps, it's the little difference that overtuns my heart.

**jayx123** · 10-06-2010, 05:48 AM

how much difference does the top veneer (spruce or maple) of the plywood really makes?

**high** · 10-06-2010, 08:29 AM

Well, i must add that my af125 is not a lemon, i had choose it between 4 artcore af customs in the shop after 1 hour of playing.

When playing the 2 guitars unpluged, the difference in tone is big , so it is not the pickups.
Epiphones body blend the overtones and tone has fullness,Ibanez body throw the sound out fast.The tone is not as pleasant.
And it is not a set up thing, i have set up guitars the same(medium-low)

Broadway is 17, scale 25.5, depth 84mm(sorry but i live in europe)
Ibanez is 16, scale 24.75 depth 70mm

ibanez is all maple, epi has a spruce top.

But i had borrowed a hagstrom hj800 for a day in my home (same dimensions with the broadway) and it was sound bad, it was almost a dead guitar.Ibanez was way better.Maybe this hagstrom was a lemon.

I have also a korean epi lespaul custom, it is not bad but it is not good either.

So, that broadway really sings. Highs and lows blend well together, and it has a sweet melow tone.Ibanez tone is more agresive and faster, it cuts through the band, but it also harsh and not as rich as the broadway.

For funky stuff ibanez feels good, but if you want chord solos or that full wes tone, its not the right tool.

Who knows...maybe i am lucky and this epi is very good...

**mr. beaumont** · 10-06-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by nado64

If the wood does just a little difference,
why guys buy a L5 rather than a broadway ? Real question !
The price is ten times more expensive ! I don't think it's for the pickup, the finishes or for the "made in usa".

The woods are the same, maple and spruce.
The woods on the L5 are just a better quality.

Each times, I try many hollow-body guitars without knowing the "overview", I prefer the guitars with the top in spruce. I don't know why but it's like this.
Perhaps, it's the little difference that overtuns my heart.

Because an L5 is a solid spruce carved top. And that's just the first thing that's different--but it's a biggie.

Plywood isn't an insult. It's a fact. In fact, I play a laminate/plywood top instrument often, and I really like it's tone and resistance to feedback. But it's also very much an electric guitar, even though the body is deep and hollow. The wood isn't affecting the tone nearly as much as the electronics.

I have played several 175's, and I find them to have a surprising amount of volume unplugged, and yes--they're rather bright in that context. They're also capable of some of the darkest, smokiest jazz tones ever plugged in--hence my hypothesis that the woods on these instrument are not the key factor in their electric tone.

And then there's the amp!

**woyvel** · 10-14-2010, 08:24 PM

Wow! I love my AFS75 but now I have to lean toward the Epi.

**Tallsomeone** · 12-14-2010, 11:04 AM

I own an AF125 and and Epi ES175. Words are difficult for tonal descriptions, but I would say that the Epi 175 was way to tight and narrow in tone when new. The notes didn't erupt out of it with attitude.

The AF125 was looser, but still dampened and boring in a way (compared to the sounds of great jazz guitars). The notes just didn't ring on the AF, although it had certain traces of good character.

So I talked to a luthier. He pointed out of course that my price bracket contained laminated tops, and that although the foreign manufacturers have mastered the art of CNC-produced mechanical consistency, the woods being used can be anything and everything -- typically inexpensive -- and that the laminated composite is a mix of light, cheap irregular wood and various adhesives.

Then these guitars are coated with polyurethane and other relatively thick protective finishes that glisten in our eyes yet dampen the sound considerably. A resonant top just won't nuance through the coatings that they use on these types of guitars.

I have to admit, you walk up to a fairy-tale-like piece of candy like an AF125 and think "This lovely thing is PERFECT!" and you buy it hoping you can take it home and eat little parts of it. I know. Or you say, "I can't afford a big ES175 Gibson, so these Epi copies must be at least NEAR that kind of sound." You hope and wish the guitar into your home.

But just like anything, there are truths in the details, and these details above (lamination, cheap top wood that is not carved and tuned in that carving process, poly coatings that protect well but dampen sound) are the things that make a difference.

I put Seth Lover pickups in my 175 and it made a world of difference in tone. I would advise that to anyone with any EPI copy. But it did not make the final difference -- which to me is the vibration of the top wood.

My guitar tech is a luthier by profession and a tech for one of the most famous jazz guitarists in the world at present. He showed me his wood shop and the pieces of wood that he starts with and how he listens to them as he taps them with his knuckle (as a slab of wood) during the carving process. He also emphasizes how you don't know if the guitar will sound good until you have joined the neck with the body. One can make the finest neck in the world and the finest body in the world, and join them and for some intangible reason they do not work well together!

Epi is not worrying about that stuff. Ibanez -- even in the GB series of guitars -- is not worrying about that stuff, either. They are taking mass-produced tops built by machines and putting them together with sides and a neck no matter what those components sounded like. That is typically okay for some percentage of the guitars, but none of them will be purposefully tuned as a unit via the components.

So, I feel that this under $1000 bracket of guitars just brings us lesser-quality materials in nicely-cut, nicely-trimmed, nicely-glazed packages with no individual attention to great tone at all. With pickups, tone controls and amp settings, we can approxiamate tonal EQ and a wee, wee bit of the envelope of great carved-top guitars, but we can't make the wood sing back to the pickup (which is what really makes a jazz box fly).

Laminated guitars do have their place on a big stage with a band, though. They are more feedback resistant.

Epi wiring and pots and pickups tend to be less-than-average in quality and installation, too.

If you haven't tried Eastman guitars (or even the Peerless stuff), that may be a place to glimpse the difference in tone between our consumer stuff and good-sounding design/construction.

Best to all and Merry Christmas!