Polytone or Fender Princeton?

[funkyjazz82]

Need some advice on deciding on a small amp to take to my jazz gigs...the Dr Z cuts way too much and the Fender Twin is heavy and loud. I own a Gibson ES 175 and want the best amp to produce the warm, beautiful tone that guitar can illustrate.

Also, the prevent feedback, have any of you ever used f-hole covers ? Any opinions on those? Thanks

[Steve Z]

I know what you mean about Dr Z amps cutting tone and brightness as I used to own a RxJr with 2-12 celestion blues... nice with a tele, not so nice with an archtop.

My current jazz rig is a Acoustic Image Clarus 2R series III with Raezer's Edge cabinets (Twin 8 and Stealth 12). I really enjoy the clean warm tone. Add a little reverb and delay to taste and it is beautiful.

That stated, there are several other amps that are equally well respected for great tone to include Polytone and Henriksen JazzAmp amps.


Cheers,
Steve Z

[mattymel]

if you are talking a princeton reverb REISSUE...they are pretty wack. those jensens are TERRIBLE. if you replace the jensen with a weber (pref rated 50 watts) now there is no comparison. the BF princeton reverb is the perfect jazz amp as near as i can tell.

[Steve Z]

oops, I guess I completely missed the titled of the original post and responded merely to the text of the post... I guess I need to just get some sleep

[kawa]

Plese check YouTube - princeton reverb jazz but 15W.
I have a Polytone Mimi - brute 2, also how to use.
Mainly I use the '66 Vibrolux Reverb(Jensen C10NS), '65 Twin and Red knob The Twin are only located for reference.

"Feedback" just how to use things, Place the amp behind the neck side, Tone setting(Balance of Volume and Bass-level).

[mr. beaumont]

hmmm...if you're playing loud enough to worry about feedback, is that princeton still clean? that would be my only concern.

I like SS amps for gigging, but just out of convenience really--for small rooms and recording (or situations where you can be mic'd up, which hardly ever happens) tube amps are great. I feel like princetons are also pretty bright, and usually have to tame them with a little EQ-ing or some volume knob roll off (with a non-archtop, gotta play with the tone knob too a little...)

for restaurant gigs, i like my polytone. Seems like it can move a little more air at a lower volume, meaning people can hear me around the little nooks and crannies of a restaurant without me needing to use too much volume.

[timski]

I have a 70s Princeton Reverb. At bedroom volumes it sounds great but it doesn't have the clean headroom in a band setting. This is with an efficient Eminence Copperhead speaker. Plus, the valve rectifier means it doesn't have the same 'immediacy' of touch as, say, a Twin Reverb so if you play really fast, intricate lines it might not suit you.
It's great if you want that bluesy, slightly in-your-face, Grant Green type tone, but if it's superclean you're after you'd be better off with a solid-state amp like the Polytone. Note the polytone will sound MUCH darker than a Fender amp.

[mattymel]

i actually play a Headstrong Lil King, which is a boutique BF Princeton Reverb circuit with a few upgrades. using a Weber 10F150T there is no breakup until about 5, which is much louder than any jazz gig i have ever played. i think that princetons can be ideal jazz amps if you have the RIGHT SPEAKER. some people swear by switching in a 12" baffle, and then you basically have a more compact Deluxe Reverb. personally i find the PR circuit to be the most ideal for jazz. its a little darker than deluxe, or twins and has the right volume and weight.

[Chito]

I am about to pull the trigger on a PRRI. I feel that it's as closest as I can be to the sound of a Twin in a lot lighter version. Hopefully it would be loud enough clean when I play with my band.

[timski]

In my experience Princetons sound v different to Twins (I've owned both at the same time, got rid of the Twin last year).
But it's still that Fender sound and is going to sound closer to a Twin than any amp made by any other company, which is probably what matters!

funkyjazz82 - Have you considered a Deluxe Reverb RI (22W, 1x12, 2x 6V6)?
Still much more portable than a Twin but more headroom than a Princeton, plus they can be had 2nd hand v easily and often cheaply.
An even better choice would be a silverface Vibrolux Reverb (35W, 2x10,2x 6L6) - more difficult to come by but definitely the Twin's little brother (tonally speaking) and only a smidgin bigger and heavier than a Deluxe.

[soopajeanmi]

I've got a princeton reverb reissue that I love. And also a jazzkat amp.

I guess the answer to your question depends on how much clean headroom you need. I'd use the princeton at a solo gig or a duo gig, but I don't think it will handle a bigger gig with a sax or trumpet playing.

The princeton has a wonderfull clean tone up to about volume 3.5 or 4, after that it gets gritty with humbuckers and wouldn't work to play chords. With a speaker change (I tried the eminence copperhead and currently have a weber 10F150T in mine) volume 3.5 can be quite loud.

Usually I take the jazzkat to gigs: solidstate so I don't have to worry about banging it around, and depending on the location you never really know how much volume you will need (40 people chatting while you play can make a lot of backgroung noise...). At home, for small rehearsal or for duo playing I always use the princeton.

[Little Jay]

...those jensens are TERRIBLE......

Not true imho, my experience is different. Have had two P10R re-issues in a Blues Deluxe and they were great. Have two C12Ks in my Twin and I love them. Breaking 'm in is the secret I think! Maybe old Jensens are better, but the remakes do their job well....

About plugging f-holes: that works great. I made my own plugs/covers out of thin multiplex-wood (3 ply laminated wood) and glued some foam to them that holds them in place in the f-hole. Reduced feedback on the particular guitars (a Framus Missouri archtop and a Furch G1 archtop) to almost zero. And it takes nothing away from the amplified sound. I have also heared from people who cut them out of old rubber flip-flops.

I agree with mr beaumont that 15W is on the light side when it comes to clean headroom (I find those little 15W tubeamps nice in the livingroom or for recording but unworkable in a jazzcombo). I use my Blues Deluxe (2x6L6, 40W, 12") and love it for jazz, certainly more portable than a Twin, but still only recommanded if you have a car. I also played a lot on the Deluxe Reverb and find that a great amp for jazz. But same story: only recommanded if you drive to your gigs by car.

For the gigs I can only reach by public transport, bicycle or even by foot I bought a Roland Cube 30x and a little shopping trolley...

[soopajeanmi]

For the gigs I can only reach by public transport, bicycle or even by foot I bought a Roland Cube 30x and a little shopping trolley...

Agree with you. I had a Cube 30 for years: it makes a great jazz tone, is loud enough for playing with a drummer and is *so* tiny, lightweight and cheap...

[Little Jay]

INote the polytone will sound MUCH darker than a Fender amp.

This is a useful remark! I think it's better to roll off some highs with treble and volume controls then to conclude that your amp sounds muffled... I mean, you can roll off highs but you can't dial in what's not there....

[bob32069]

I have a 73 Fender Princeton Reverb. I get more clean headroom by replacing the 1st 12AX7 tube with a 12AY7 tube, which has a lower gain factor. I also replaced the stock speaker (which was original and kind of farty) with an Eminence Lil Buddy, which has a nice dark tone without being boomy in the bass. As one previous poster said, the PRs give more of a Grant Green type of tone than a modern tone. But I love mine. I've never played a polytone so can't comment on that. I would definitely buy one if I could get it for the right price.

[timski]

I use a 5751 as the 1st pre-amp tube in my '75 Princeton Reverb (has approx 30% less gain than a 12AX7 and slightly smoother top-end) and prior to that used 12AY7s.
12AY7s do give you more clean headroom in so far as at, say, 5 on the volume knob it will sound cleaner, but it will also be less loud than with 12AX7s and ultimately, once the amp reaches a certain volume, the clean headroom is going to suffer, whatever tubes are in it.
Reducing pre-amp gain will just cause it to 'compensate' by producing more power tube distortion so the only real difference at higher volume levels is the character of the distortion (pre-amp Vs power amp), if you catch my drift.
The only way to achieve more genuine clean headroom at gigging volume (without going modifying the circuit) levels is to use a more efficient speaker and ensure that you use good quality output tubes.
I know a lot of people use PRs with an extension cabinet containing an efficient 12" or even 15" speaker and unplug the amp's speaker altogether.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I know a lot of people use PRs with an extension cabinet containing an efficient 12" or even 15" speaker and unplug the amp's speaker altogether.

With the trend towards smaller wattage amps, Fender should offer some of their smaller amps with a speaker-size bump: Princeton's with 12" and Deluxes with 2x12 or 15". I bet they'd sell plenty.

[BHJazzman]

POLYTONE... Small, Classic tone, Plenty of power, Light, Warm. Great for gigs and recording. I love my Mega Brute. 8 inch, 120 watts. Try one.

[funkyjazz82]

Well, I made my decision about four months ago, and I chose neither of the two. I chose to buy a Roland Cube 80, has sound effects, light, great jazz tone for my 175, and it was only $350. Solid state amp, hasnt let me down yet.

Thanks again.

[Peterplaysmusic]

I agree with the two forum contributors who suggested the Roland 30 and 80 Cubes for consideration. I have a Cube 60 and it processes my Gibson CS-356 archtop, Strat Ultra, and G&L Tele Bluesboy just fine and is a great value compared to the Fender Tube reissues ... I am considering a PRRI because it does one thing better than my Cube .. that authentic Accutronics tank / tube driven spring reverb... that aside, solid state amps with simulation capability come pretty close to my old, since sold, Fender Twin Reverbs and Musicman amps .... my old Musicman 210 HD ( 130 watt combo ) was clean, super headroom, and never a need to mic it even at outdoor gigs -- very loud, but at nearly 100 lbs .. I appreciate the new crop of small yet powerful amps. I may get a Princeton for the reverb but at 15 watts most guitarists on several forums observe it is underpowered for medium and larger venues or un-mic'd playing with a drummer
Cheers, Peter

[Peterplaysmusic]

I agree with the two forum contributors who suggested the Roland 30 and 80 Cubes for consideration. I have a Cube 60 and it processes my Gibson CS-356 archtop, Strat Ultra, and G&L Tele Bluesboy just fine and is a great value compared to the Fender Tube reissues ... I am considering a PRRI because it does one thing better than my Cube .. that authentic Accutronics tank / tube driven spring reverb... that aside, solid state amps with simulation capability come pretty close to my old, since sold, Fender Twin Reverbs and Musicman amps .... my old Musicman 210 HD ( 130 watt combo ) was clean, super headroom, and never a need to mic it even at outdoor gigs -- very loud, but at nearly 100 lbs .. I appreciate the new crop of small yet powerful amps. I may get a Princeton for the reverb but at 15 watts most guitarists on several forums observe it is underpowered for medium and larger venues or un-miked playing with a drummer
Cheers, Peter

[docbop]

I agree with the two forum contributors who suggested the Roland 30 and 80 Cubes for consideration. I have a Cube 60 and it processes my Gibson CS-356 archtop, Strat Ultra, and G&L Tele Bluesboy just fine and is a great value compared to the Fender Tube reissues ... I am considering a PRRI because it does one thing better than my Cube .. that authentic Accutronics tank / tube driven spring reverb...

Here's a reverb pedal to check out.

!

I used to have a BF Princeton and only amp I regret ever selling. I have a DRRI now and it sounds good, but hate burning up tubes to practice so looking at getting a Cube 40 XL looks like a perfect amp for practice and small gigs.

[Peterplaysmusic]

Thanks DocBop, I will check it out,

Peter

[pierre richard]

I used a Deluxe Reverb for my Ibanez 2355 for years..I agree the Twin is heavy but the sound I get with my 62 Stratocaster is out of this world..then went to Polytone...Mini Brute II..1-12"..

The feed back problem...I play a 1977 Ibanez 2355 (ES-175)...I gets better with age..

I stuffed it with medium sized "packing peanuts"...then cut two styrofoam sheets (1/8" thick)...4" x 12" and worked them through the "F" holes and centered them just under the "F" holes...worked for me..

Time on the instrument..pierre..

[jzucker]

bump up to a deluxe reverb if you can