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Hey guys!
I am a quiet reader for a relatively long time now but I need your help in a decision I am going to make. I am currently playing through a Headrush Gigboard which I totally like soundwise but the editing, tone finding and tweaking process is a huge downside for me. I hate using the touchscreen to do adjustments, the menu structure and UI is, at least for me, nothing I want to use anymore. And since Headrush is not going to release a PC editor (even if they did you have to put your device in USB mode) I am searching for a new device.
Currently I am looking at the following:
- Fender Tone Master Pro
- Quad Cortex
- Fractal Audio FM3/FM9
I was also looking at a Boss GT1000 or a Line6 but the Line6 is a huge bulky thing and the Boss did also not satisfy my inner self.
I am not into profiling thats why Kemper didn't make it on the list (I know QC is capable of that). I did a little bit of a comparison and Amp-wise there is nothing I was missing on either of the devices. I think soundwise they are pretty comparable but I cannot find that many examples of people playing jazz with either of the devices (well Jens Larsen uses the AxeFX at least).
Currently, I am leaning towards the Fender. The software and UI looks pretty nice and intuitive to me, it has all the Amps and features I ever want to use and I do somehow trust Fender. But I am a little bit concerned that they might dump their product or the support is not that user friendly as it is maybe with QC or Fractal which exist now for a longer time on the market (even longer for Fractal). A downside for the Fractal is maybe if I want to tweak the settings in a live situation the oldschool UI and missing touch could be a little bit painful. QC is somewhere in the middle of both for me.
Maybe if some of you are using one of the mentioned units could you please tell something about how you are satisfied with it and why you did choose one over the other?
Thank you very much guys and I am looking forward to read your opinions!
Best
Tom
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12-12-2023 03:38 AM
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I only have experience with Line 6 but the Tonemaster Pro has been facing some criticism on alliasing and lack of accuracy on amp models. If you search for Leon Todd on YouTube, he makes clear the TMP is not on pair, currently, witj the best units. Also, not sure if that is important to you, it currently does not allow for tuner center frequency adjustment, so you're stuck with 440hz - which makes it almost impossible to play with piano players.
I never understood, honestly, how good the modelling on the Quad Cortex is - it seems most people who use it, go the capture route. They now have a PC Editor and I have heard some good sounds out of it. Another plus for jazz practice, it has a long looper (4 or 5 mintues) and a freeze effect. I'm not sure it simpler than the Headrush to use, maybe the PC Editor helps?
The Fractal stuff is very good, has constant updates but it's hard to use. Not only from an UI perspective, but it has A LOT of options. That would make me OCD - if you found the Headrush complicated, I don't think you would find Fractal simple, at all. But for accutacy, it probably can't be beaten.
I wish Line6 released something in the Quad Cortex size, basically the HX Effects but with amps and cabs. The Stomp and Stomp XL are too small and the Helix LT and the Helix Floor too big. But I think they have the bast balance between good sound and ease of use, plus plenty of fx - and constant updades too, like the new Bassman or Grammatico, which are great for jazz.
I don't think here you'll find much help, very few people use modelling. You can get a lot more on TGP, but not exactly for jazz players...
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Hey! Thanks for your insights
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
. Well I wouldn't mind if I could not change my tuner to 442 herz. Well if that was the only issue i would carry a spare tuner with or.. i don't know. I did not find the Headrush complicated to operate but I didnt like the menu structure and the lack of tuners to tweak the settings. At first I thought I wouldn't care, but after using it for a few months its really annoying. The hint for the Fractal is good that its complicated. For me a device with good sounds out of the box but the ability to tweak would be ideal. And since I also play some Rock and Metal I'd like to have different Amp models in place and not buy a lot of Tube Amps .
Maybe I just order the Fender and try it if its fits my needs. If not, I can return it.
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I have the Fender TMP. Fender does the Fender amps very well, and they haven’t’ even done a bunch of their own amps,yet, that are coming in future updates. That’s good enough for me. I could care less about the Friedman-EvH crunch debates. I don’t care about what Leon Todd says about Metal or whatever. The fact I could use the Fender from day one, basically without a manual, speaks volumes over Fractal. Which you have be an engineer to basically program. I could almost right way set up a stereo amp setups, with effects. The reverb is great and takes up a lot of computing power.
Fender just got started, and their reps say they aren’t going to release stuff just to release it. They’re going to take their time getting the Tweed amps right, for example. They’ve said they’re going to in for the long haul. Remember, the technology they were developed for this went into their new ToneMaster amps. I still have the Fender ToneMaster Princeton, which is great.
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Well, if the tuner thing is not an issue... One big plus for the Fender that everyone compliments is the UI, and that seems to be your main requirement. Originally Posted by BlackBird
Hey! Thanks for your insights. Well I wouldn't mind if I could not change my tuner to 442 herz. Well if that was the only issue i would carry a spare tuner with or.. i don't know. I did not find the Headrush complicated to operate but I didnt like the menu structure and the lack of tuners to tweak the settings. At first I thought I wouldn't care, but after using it for a few months its really annoying. The hint for the Fractal is good that its complicated. For me a device with good sounds out of the box but the ability to tweak would be ideal. And since I also play some Rock and Metal I'd like to have different Amp models in place and not buy a lot of Tube Amps .
Maybe I just order the Fender and try it if its fits my needs. If not, I can return it.
Another (weird) Fender issue is they have baked the part that modells impedance behaviour between the power amp and the speaker on the cab block, so if you use 3rd party IRs (which I do) you don't get that part of modelling. I guess that's a lot more relevant for high-gain sounds, but it's also another minus.
As you said, if you can return it, you don't have mucn to loose.
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Here is Leon Todd with a Deluxe Reverb Originally Posted by Navdeep_Singh
The Fractal is spot on. The TMP is not, at all.
Fender got one thing right, the UI. But their modelling is still (objectibily) quite far from where it should be, even on Fender amps. But for most people it's on the "good enough" side and it's simplicity makes it a winner.
As I said, I think Line 6 represents the best balance between easy to use and accuracy. Another good option for the OP would be a single pedal, like a Dream 65, and the HX Effects for all the rest.
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There is also the Dwarf by Mod Audio (formerly Mod Devices).
The software is open source and you can test it on your own PC with your own audio interface:
GitHub - moddevices/mod-app: MOD Audio for the desktop
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I’ll watch it later. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and amps are tested in various circumstances with multiple variables, etc. let’s be clear, the general consensus is that Fender nailed their own amps and are lagging in the overdriven distortion front. Which I don’t care about. I tested it against my Fender Princeton and it’s fine. Don’t underestimate that Fender is not targeting online gearheads. The Mary Spender response is more like the typical reaction. That is to say, don’t under-estimate the fact that this is easy to use, like a Fender amp. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
It’s still my 2nd favorite amp. Nothing beats the Buscarino Chameleon amp system. John nailed it, perfectly, for jazz boxes, acoustic guitars and even solid body guitars. So my Fender TMP is my second choice/backup. And in those opportunities I can have a stereo amp setup. But also it’s easy to use for recording.
I will say that, for small footprint, the Dream 65 is GREAT. But it requires an amp to work with it, as well. So, it’s a bit more clunky, in that regard.
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Ok I listened to all those clips. It’s as he said, they all pretty much sound the same, with the caveat that he had to tweak the IRs on the Fender TMP. Which is actually easy to do. None of them sound good to me, but I’m not interested in higher gain even classical rock sounds. YMMV.
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I have to say I disagree - I don't think they all sound the same, I thought the Helix and the Fractal did a much better job, the Fractal even better. Originally Posted by Navdeep_Singh
Also, it's hard to imagine Fender "failed" on higher gain tones and "nailed it" on clean tones. 90% of people who buy a modeler couldn't care less about clean tones, and modelers in general don't care much about them. If the TMP failed this test, I think it would fail even higher on clean tones - maybe Leon will do that test, would love to hear it.
Fender has been developing this product for a long time now (and part of it derived to the Tonemaster amps) and I think the developing team just got a lot of pressure to release it as it was, to take advantage of the holidays. And I think most of their costumers care more about a simple UI than accuracy, so they were probably right.
But, and this is based on many clips only, they still have a lot of work to do when it comes to core tones - and it will be very hard to compete with the years of knowledge companies like Fractal or Line 6 have. If any of these companies copies the TMP UI (shouldn't be hard), there's absolutley no reason to buy a TMP.
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Alright I have listened to all of the videos of Leon with my DT 770 Pro to get a neutral sound as possible but I know that youtube compresses like hell. So maybe its not that representative.
Anyway, there is a huge difference in my opinion that is a fact. The Axe Fx to me did really sound the closest to the real amp (will the FM3 / FM9 also? Less processing power but same models?). But as Leon said in his video: its all about making music and if you are satisfied with your device and getting a good tone out of it and you are happy, well then the device you own is the one for you. For me it is all about usability. If the tone is not spot on, I don't care. I don't want to copy a specific sound or sound like Benson, Wes or Pass. I do want to sound like me, maybe with a touch if this and that. I don't think having a specific guitar from 1956 or that specific Amp which is handwired by Leo Fender himself will not let me sound like the best guitar player if my technique is shit.
That being said: I will get my hands on some of the Fractal products (which is hard to try out here in Germany but maybe some people can let me play around), as well as QC and Fender. After that I will decide and I think I will be happy with what I get. And I also do think that Fender will listen to their customers and will provide updates for better sounds. Fractal did, Headrush did, they all did so why shouldn't Fender?
Thank you all for your help!
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Hmm that is a really nice device. I will dig a little bit into that Originally Posted by Bop Head
Thanks!
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