Side mount or neck mounted floating pickup

[RJVB]

Self-tapping screws are only needed with metal.

I think that's only really true if you make big enough pilot hole. The carpenter who made us a new used en equivalent of self-tapping wood screws. Big bad ass things though, and pine wood. You do have to back them up a couple of times but that's not so uncommon with normal screws either.

[sgosnell]

A very small pilot hole is sufficient for screws that mount a pickup to a neck. I have no idea about whatever your carpenter made or used to make it. I've never needed self-tapping screws for woodworking, certainly not for small screws into guitars. YMMV.

[bluejaybill]

A very small pilot hole is sufficient for screws that mount a pickup to a neck. I have no idea about whatever your carpenter made or used to make it. I've never needed self-tapping screws for woodworking, certainly not for small screws into guitars. YMMV.

No, I would think you would want to drill the proper size pilot hole and use a tiny wood screw. Definitely not a self tapping screw! Ugh!

[GuyBoden]

What Size Hole? — Haze Guitars

[Woody Sound]

I went with this:
Kent Armstrong Handwound Pickup
It is tricky balancing all 12 poles but I am getting there.

Attachment 107375

This brings up a different question I have always wondered about. Why 12 poles on a humbucker instead of 6? And, if adjustable poles are important on both coils, why aren't they all made that way? Maybe a topic for another thread.

There seems to be some confusion on the web. Some who refer to 12 adjustable poles, are actually referring to Carvin's *11* adjustable poles *per coil*. NOT 6 adjustable poles on each coil.

[sgosnell]

This brings up a different question I have always wondered about. Why 12 poles on a humbucker instead of 6? And, if adjustable poles are important on both coils, why aren't they all made that way?

The short answer is money, as always. It costs more money to build a pickup with more adjustable polepieces, and six is enough to do the job well enough for almost everyone. But if your product is a niche offering, you can spend more making it if you can sell it for enough money. Mass markets with intense competition require controlling costs very intensely. Most amateur guitar players, and even pros, don't want to spend time adjusting twelve screws, or even six. Out of the millions of guitars with humbucking pickups sold, I would guess that only a tiny fraction of them have ever had any of the polepieces adjusted even a little. Someone who buys a pickup hand-wound by Armstrong is far more likely to be anal enough to adjust all the polepieces, so he can charge enough to make that model profitable for him, by making it a feature, not a bug.

[Woody Sound]

The short answer is money, as always. It costs more money to build a pickup with more adjustable polepieces, and six is enough to do the job well enough for almost everyone. But if your product is a niche offering, you can spend more making it if you can sell it for enough money. Mass markets with intense competition require controlling costs very intensely. Most amateur guitar players, and even pros, don't want to spend time adjusting twelve screws, or even six. Out of the millions of guitars with humbucking pickups sold, I would guess that only a tiny fraction of them have ever had any of the polepieces adjusted even a little. Someone who buys a pickup hand-wound by Armstrong is far more likely to be anal enough to adjust all the polepieces, so he can charge enough to make that model profitable for him, by making it a feature, not a bug.

So there's really no sonic/balance advantage to having the 2nd coil adjustable?

[bluejaybill]

The short answer is money, as always. It costs more money to build a pickup with more adjustable polepieces, and six is enough to do the job well enough for almost everyone. But if your product is a niche offering, you can spend more making it if you can sell it for enough money. Mass markets with intense competition require controlling costs very intensely. Most amateur guitar players, and even pros, don't want to spend time adjusting twelve screws, or even six. Out of the millions of guitars with humbucking pickups sold, I would guess that only a tiny fraction of them have ever had any of the polepieces adjusted even a little. Someone who buys a pickup hand-wound by Armstrong is far more likely to be anal enough to adjust all the polepieces, so he can charge enough to make that model profitable for him, by making it a feature, not a bug.

That's probably all true, for years I never adjusted the poles in my hum buckers, that took a while!

But about the 12 pole, I will say that adjusting both coils gives a better string to string balance than just the six in all the other floaters I have used. So I would say that the design had a big impact for me. I really don't know why floaters are harder to balance than set in pickups, but it seems that they are.

Also, in theory you should be able to adjust the coils separately, perhaps one lower than the other, which could affect the tone. Unbalanced coils have been found in some vintage PAF's, and are a feature of some boutique PAF designs. YMMV etc.

[sgosnell]

I don't say that having 12 poles doesn't affect the tone to some degree, just not enough to be economically viable for large pickup manufacturers, nor even for most smaller manufacturers. If it sold more pickups for more money, they would be ubiquitous. They are not.

[ThatRhythmMan]

How can an electromagnetic PU pick up the vibrations from a wood body?? Maybe rather the movement relative to all strings that those vibrations induce?



Do you use self-tapping screws with that?

It’s more noticeable if the coils are not potted. The vibrations of the top/body induce vibrations in the coils. I would think the magnets vibrate to some extent also. At least that’s what I think happens.


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[RJVB]

I don't say that having 12 poles doesn't affect the tone to some degree, just not enough to be economically viable for large pickup manufacturers

If it makes the adjustment process more complicated there may also be the "better is the enemy of good" thing where it becomes too easy to make the sound worse and not be able to get the old sound back as readily? But then again that's hardly a concern for large-scale manufacturers.

I can't remember the exact numbers but if the manufacturer has to add even a 10 cent screw for a feature that added cost can appear in the MSRP multiplied by a healthy factor. An uncle of mine working for Philips TV division explained that once already back in the 80s, when I asked why PCBs so often have empty locations labelled for additional functions.

It’s more noticeable if the coils are not potted. The vibrations of the top/body induce vibrations in the coils. I would think the magnets vibrate to some extent also.

Makes sense, but so it's indeed an effect of the pickup moving relative to the strings. Feedback, basically...

[Cunamara]

The purpose of having 12 adjustable pole pieces on the Kent Armstrong PAF design is so that the pickup can be readily adjusted for use with steel, nickel, nickel plated, bronze/brass wound, strings, etc. If you can only adjust one coil's pole pieces, you're going to have a hard time having that range of adjustment for different string materials.

As for why most other pickup makers don't do that, I suspect the explanation given above is pretty accurate.

[RJVB]

Maybe a stupid question, but does a 6-screw design necessarily correspond to having only 6 adjustable poles or would it be possible to couple the 2 poles reading a single string?

[sgosnell]

Perhaps it could be done, but increased complexity + increased cost != increased profit, nor necessarily increased utility.

[bluejaybill]

The purpose of having 12 adjustable pole pieces on the Kent Armstrong PAF design is so that the pickup can be readily adjusted for use with steel, nickel, nickel plated, bronze/brass wound, strings, etc. If you can only adjust one coil's pole pieces, you're going to have a hard time having that range of adjustment for different string materials.

As for why most other pickup makers don't do that, I suspect the explanation given above is pretty accurate.

Not to mention that guitar players (including me!) are very conservative about their gear!

[GuyBoden]

I used some J-B Weld Epoxy resin last week to attach a humbucker with no tab to a pickguard, seems to be ok, but time will see.

[sgosnell]

JB Weld is good stuff. I once used it to repair the exhaust manifold on a POS GM car, and it held fine. Just be advised that you cannot remove the pickup without damaging it or the pickguard, or both.

[GuyBoden]

An interesting Teisco Style Gold Foil 10.7mm very thin pickup that could possibly be made into a floating pickup. (Are these Teisco Style Gold Foil a new pickup fad?)

Vintage Teisco Style Gold Foil Guitar Pickup / Alnico 5 – Roswell Pickups

[Cunamara]

One the inadvertent effects of having only six adjustable screws on a PAF style pickup is that some people believe only one coil of the pickup contributes to the tone. The amp gets signal from both coils as most of us here will already know. That's going to be much more obvious with 12 pole pieces that you can adjust.

[RJVB]

(Are these Teisco Style Gold Foil a new pickup fad?)

Well, the do claim that their gold foil is crystal clear natural sound with huge harmonic overtones. Maybe you need to be under LSD to appreciate them fully?

[bluejaybill]

Well, the do claim that their gold foil is crystal clear natural sound with huge harmonic overtones. Maybe you need to be under LSD to appreciate them fully?

That shouldn't be necessary- a couple of decent shots of bourbon should do the trick!

[GuyBoden]

Well, they do claim that their gold foil is crystal clear natural sound with huge harmonic overtones. Maybe you need to be under LSD to appreciate them fully?

That shouldn't be necessary- a couple of decent shots of bourbon should do the trick!

Am I wrong in remembering them cheap 1970's Teisco pickups sounding thin and trebly.

[RJVB]

Am I wrong in remembering them cheap 1970's Teisco pickups sounding thin and trebly.

Hah, and I was already going to say that BJ's suggestion seemed like a waste of even 4R Yellow Label to me

[sgosnell]

Am I wrong in remembering them cheap 1970's Teisco pickups sounding thin and trebly.

No, you're not wrong.