Gibson 1957 L-5s & Byrdlands Back In Production

[jim777]

So how many people will actually step up and buy a new Gibson Carved Archtop ? I expect the price to be on rather high side of things.
Especially when Mark Campellone already makes great Archtops in the old Gibson tradition and is doing all the work himself. And they would be half of Gibsons Price as well.

I think Gibson isn’t interested in putting resources with such a limited market. I’m sure the profit margins are way better as they are now.

Just speaking for myself, I'd go straight to Mark (and it wouldn't even be a 10 second internal discussion).

[bluejaybill]

Just speaking for myself, I'd go straight to Mark (and it wouldn't even be a 10 second internal discussion).

At which point you would find out how long his wait list is!

[jads57]

Well unless you need a specific custom build, there always some used ones at attractive prices available!

[Bluedawg]

Well unless you need a specific custom build, there always some used ones at attractive prices available!

Looks like 2023 is the 100th anniversary of the Gibson L5.

That's one hundred years or more of used Gibson archtops out there.

Gibsons biggest competition has long been its used guitars.

[jim777]

At which point you would find out how long his wait list is!

I understand it's longer now than the 2.5 years I waited for the first one, but still worth it. Heck, you could buy a used one and get a new one for what will likely be the same or less than the price of one of these new Gibsons

[Archie]

Looks like 2023 is the 100th anniversary of the Gibson L5.

That's one hundred years or more of used Gibson archtops out there.

Gibsons biggest competition has long been its used guitars.

The video games industry has been trying to fix that problem for a few years now.
The fact that I can buy a new game and then sell the cd on to someone else for half price, means they lose tons of sales.

That’s why when Sony collaborated with the industry to do away with cd drives in their consoles, the gamers rose up and Sony backed down. Developers and publishers weren’t happy but Sony didn’t want to lose console sales to Microsoft, who pretended to be defending gamers by keeping their disk drive.

Most are now moving over to download only so I doubt there will be a used video game market in 5 years.

[Spook410]

Just speaking for myself, I'd go straight to Mark (and it wouldn't even be a 10 second internal discussion).

Last time I checked, Campellone is no longer taking orders. Has that changed?

[jim777]

Last time I checked, Campellone is no longer taking orders. Has that changed?

I have no idea; I've only had mine a few months so haven't thought about getting another (yet).

[vinnyv1k]

It’s 4 years with a wait list to get on the wait list. You could get lucky as people drop off the list Mark says.

[SierraTango]

Since this thread has been somewhat hijacked with Gibson vs. Campellone and Monteleone, I am baffled why no one brings Benedetto into the discussion. Here is a American small business, thriving and successful built from the ground up by a modern genius. He who has influenced an entire community of craftsman that have followed his principals and added their own unique take-Buscarino, Unger, Comins all started with him. And it's not like some very fine players have not used his products at one time or another-Bruno, Alden, Pizzarelli, Martino. And some fine current endorser/players-Gould, Brilelli, etc.

Albeit he has retired from building, the Savanna guitars are a fine instruments. May not have the cache or value of a guitar created solely by the Master, but that ship has sailed.

I am biased. However, I would not trade my 90 Cremona for 2 L-5's.

[sgosnell]

Benedetto (the company) does indeed produce fine guitars, at competitive prices. They do not sound like L5s, but to many that's a plus.

[deacon Mark]

Benedetto makes fine guitars, and they play very well that said, I have never wanted one, looked for one or would I really go out of my way to own one. I prefer the Gibson look ascetically and have no use for wooded tailpieces. However, his necks are superior and his 25-inch standard scale the best.

[floatingpickup]

Benedetto makes fine guitars, and they play very well that said, I have never wanted one, looked for one or would I really go out of my way to own one. I prefer the Gibson look ascetically and have no use for wooded tailpieces. However, his necks are superior and his 25-inch standard scale the best.

I have a 1989 Fratello, built by Bob. I agree with you about the necks and scale. Mine has the most perfect neck of any guitar I have ever owned. It plays beautifully and sounds fantastic. I also agree with you about wooden tailpieces not being that attractive. I prefer the look of a metal/gold plated tailpiece, or a combination of wood and metal like Mark Campellone’s design. Having said that, the wooden tailpiece may actually be part of the reason a Benedetto guitar sounds as good as it does. Both Bob and Jimmy D’Aquisto certainly believed in wooden tailpieces.
Keith

[sgosnell]

I have an 18" guitar made by Wu, but a Benedetto-inspired build, that came with an Eastman-style wooden tailpiece. I've tried replacing the tailpiece with a metal one, and just removing the wood from the metal frame, and both changed the sound to something I didn't like at all, and I replaced the wood and don't plan on changing again. The sound went trebly and tinny, while the original sounded like what I think a big archtop should sound like. The tailpiece does affect the sound.

[Hammertone]

At least they are reasonably consistent when it comes to the bracing pattern.
2023 compared to @1970:

[bluenote61]

At least they are reasonably consistent when it comes to the bracing pattern.
2023 compared to @1970:

Thanks Hammer for this pics.
The top of the '70 L5 CES looks like the carved out part was fully machined. The sharp transition from the carved out portion to the flat rim of the top reminded me on a video of a Gibson factory tour from 1967, where it is shown in a short sequence how the carved tops were machined. I think this is in line with the comments made before about industrial manufacturing of L5 tops.
Starts at 4:17.

[vinnyv1k]

What are those small blocks on the left side of the 70’s top for ?

[Tal_175]

The 70's one looks like a Super 400.

[Bluedawg]

Since this thread has been somewhat hijacked with Gibson vs. Campellone and Monteleone, I am baffled why no one brings Benedetto into the discussion. Here is a American small business, thriving and successful built from the ground up by a modern genius. He who has influenced an entire community of craftsman that have followed his principals and added their own unique take-Buscarino, Unger, Comins all started with him. And it's not like some very fine players have not used his products at one time or another-Bruno, Alden, Pizzarelli, Martino. And some fine current endorser/players-Gould, Brilelli, etc.

Albeit he has retired from building, the Savanna guitars are a fine instruments. May not have the cache or value of a guitar created solely by the Master, but that ship has sailed.

I am biased. However, I would not trade my 90 Cremona for 2 L-5's.

Benedetto certainly has its fans ... I still dream of having a La Venezia someday.

On the other hand, when people complain about Gibson's prices, Benedetto is one of the other builders I think of along with great builders like Manzer, Marchione, Monteleone, Scharpach, Buscarino and more.

A new Cremona will cost you three times what House of Guitars is asking for their new L5.

Gibson Custom Wes Montgomery L-5 – Ebony – The House of Guitars(R)

There are also other builders making great archtop guitars for less than Gibson.

While Gibson archtops are expensive, their prices have been competitive when compared to many other makers who have developed a reputation for making great archtops.

[Hammertone]

What are those small blocks on the left side of the 70’s top for ?

Those are cleats. There was probably a crack in the wood that Gibson repaired because they did not want to waste a finished, braced top. Since the top was for a CES-style guitar, any issue related to acoustic tone was of no concern.

The 70's one looks like a Super 400.

Just extra wood to be trimmed off once the top was positioned/glued in place on the 17" wide rims.

[SierraTango]

Benedetto certainly has its fans ... I still dream of having a La Venezia someday.

On the other hand, when people complain about Gibson's prices, Benedetto is one of the other builders I think of along with great builders like Manzer, Marchione, Monteleone, Scharpach, Buscarino and more.

A new Cremona will cost you three times what House of Guitars is asking for their new L5.

Gibson Custom Wes Montgomery L-5 – Ebony – The House of Guitars(R)

There are also other builders making great archtop guitars for less than Gibson.

While Gibson archtops are expensive, their prices have been competitive when compared to many other makers who have developed a reputation for making great archtops.

I think the Benedetto Americana model would be much closer to L-5 Wes specs. 13K.

[vinnyv1k]

The 70's one looks like a Super 400.

It’s a L5. S400’s have a different style F-hole.

[ccroft]

...a Gibson factory tour from 1967, where it is shown in a short sequence how the carved tops were machined. I think this is in line with the comments made before about industrial manufacturing of L5 tops. Starts at 4:17.

And there it is: The Green Monster, mother of our most cherished archtops. A pre-cursor to the much reviled (by guitar players) CNC machine. Save the meat power for the fine work I say, and preserve the joints for a longer life of guitar making. Lots of our most loved luthiers do this one way or another. CNC actually does it better, making for less work in the fine tuning.

Also in that vid is all sorts of custom made machinery to speed up almost every step. Again, not really what civilians tend to think of as fine woodworking. The trade's been looking for a quicker and more accurate way for centuries. And once again, CNC does it better and with more flexibility; as in not a one trick pony.

An automated feeder pushing a neck blank clamped to a pattern through a shaper isn't any more artful than using CNC, and would probably cost more to make these days. And then they have another automated shaper for solid bodies. And over-head pin routers for f-holes. Gang presses for tuners. All really interesting to see.

We have better tools today.

[Hammertone]

Yes, the Green Monster. I wonder when they actually retired it?

[ccroft]

Maintenance cost? I'd think the beast was getting pretty tired and cranky. Sad to say, but there's better ways now.