Gibson Custom building archtops again?

**Woody Sound** · 11-15-2023, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

When I see new Gibson jazz guitars, THEN I'll believe it!

Don't be a Doubting Douglas!

**andrew** · 11-15-2023, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I would actually prefer the staples.

Me too, but I think we're in the minority in that regard. But what I would REALLY prefer would be for them to go back to the lighter construction of the '50s originals.

**PDeville** · 11-16-2023, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by andrew

Me too, but I think we're in the minority in that regard. But what I would REALLY prefer would be for them to go back to the lighter construction of the '50s originals.

I agree, they should know how to make the 1950s/60s style instruments. They did it, with the 59 Reissue ES-175. I have one, a single pickup blonde. 5lbs 10oz and it is not neck heavy, but beautifully balanced. Unlike most "modern" archtops I have played.
There was a new L5CES at Daves Guitar a few months ago. It was referenced here at JGF. The sunburst finish was horrid!!
It seems that they do not want to build one.

**andrew** · 11-16-2023, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by PDeville

I agree, they should know how to make the 1950s/60s style instruments. They did it, with the 59 Reissue ES-175. I have one, a single pickup blonde. 5lbs 10oz and it is not neck heavy, but beautifully balanced. Unlike most "modern" archtops I have played.
There was a new L5CES at Daves Guitar a few months ago. It was referenced here at JGF. The sunburst finish was horrid!!
It seems that they do not want to build one.

Oh that's very interesting! I didn't know the '59 reissues were so light. It gives me some hope for the future.

I remember Dave's recent L5. There's also a brand new ebony L5 WesMo for sale on Reverb right now from House of Guitars in Rochester. So they've made at least two L5s over the past year!

**Woody Sound** · 11-16-2023, 11:48 AM

How can you beat this?

**Dennis D** · 11-16-2023, 12:52 PM

[QUOTE=Woody Sound;1298495

How can you beat this?

[/QUOTE]

Sorry, WS but that's easy -

1. Build it like they built them in the '50's / '60' - meaning lighter, not so heavy, less weight, not designed for Led Z volumes...

Maybe like one of these : ( sorry about the photo 'flip' )
Gibson Custom building archtops again?-camp-jpg

Gibson Custom building archtops again?-camp-jpg

: )

**Woody Sound** · 11-16-2023, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

Sorry, WS but that's easy -

1. Build it like they built them in the '50's / '60' - meaning lighter, not so heavy, less weight, not designed for Led Z volumes...

Maybe like one of these : ( sorry about the photo 'flip' )

: )

Absolutely. But we were discussing '57 reissues.

**Dennis D** · 11-16-2023, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

Absolutely. But we were discussing '57 reissues.

**bluejaybill** · 11-16-2023, 02:55 PM

What do those staple pickups sound like on an arch top? I have only heard them on old LP's, and my recollection is that they were very high output, though I could be wrong!

**andrew** · 11-16-2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by bluejaybill

What do those staple pickups sound like on an arch top? I have only heard them on old LP's, and my recollection is that they were very high output, though I could be wrong!

Wes originally had an L-5 with the staple pickups. To my ears, it sure sounds like that's what he's using on Bags Meets Wes and Nat Adderley's Work Song albums. Brighter sound than what later became normal for him. He later swapped the neck pickup for a regular P90. There's of photo of the guitar in that configuration on the back of the George Shearing and The Montgomery Brothers record.

**wintermoon** · 11-16-2023, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by andrew

Wes originally had an L-5 with the staple pickups. To my ears, it sure sounds like that's what he's using on Bags Meets Wes and Nat Adderley's Work Song albums. Brighter sound than what later became normal for him. He later swapped the neck pickup for a regular P90. There's of photo of the guitar in that configuration on the back of the George Shearing and The Montgomery Brothers record.

Good eye on the pickup swap but of course album pics aren't necessarily always indicative of what was used on a particular session, though I understand you're using your ears too.
The Shearing lp was recorded in '61 and the Bags in '62 at which point Wes already had sunburst and blonde venetian humbucker L-5's. But who really knows what he used on what session?

**jzucker** · 11-16-2023, 04:00 PM

i bought a 335 from gibson directly around 2018(ish) (can't remember the exact date). It was one of the worst 335 copies I've ever owned. Not even close to the level of the peerless stuff in terms of tone, quality, etc.

I also played a 275 around the same time and was also extremely unimpressed. I haven't tried anything of theirs since the comeback. With guys like Shaefer making incredible instruments, i'm not sure I'd ever consider a new gibson.

**andrew** · 11-16-2023, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

Good eye on the pickup swap but of course album pics aren't necessarily always indicative of what was used on a particular session, though I understand you're using your ears too.
The Shearing lp was recorded in '61 and the Bags in '62 at which point Wes already had sunburst and blonde venetian humbucker L-5's. But who really knows what he used on what session?

Not to take this conversation too far off of the original rails, but I've been curious as to the history/timeline of Wes' L-5s. There are photos of him with a sunburst L-5 with two staple pickups and photos of him with a sunburst L-5 that has a P90 at the neck and a staple at the bridge. I always assumed they were the same guitar and he just swapped the pickup, but you're right that the timeline doesn't add up (According to Wikipedia, the Shearing album was recorded in October '61 and the Bags album was recorded in December '61). I suppose it's possible that they're two different guitars and he owned them both simultaneously. After all, there are photos of him playing a P90 L-5 at the '65 Newport Jazz Festival, well after his humbucker period began, so we know he wasn't a lifelong guitar monogamist.

I've particularly curious about the P90 and staple L-5s. Being an avowed "single coil guy", I own an L-5 with P90s. To my ears, the Shearing record is the only one of his recordings that has "that" sound. But, I haven't listened to all of the Montgomery Brothers stuff in quite a while.

**PDeville** · 11-16-2023, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i bought a 335 from gibson directly around 2018(ish) (can't remember the exact date). It was one of the worst 335 copies I've ever owned. Not even close to the level of the peerless stuff in terms of tone, quality, etc.

I also played a 275 around the same time and was also extremely unimpressed. I haven't tried anything of theirs since the comeback. With guys like Shaefer making incredible instruments, i'm not sure I'd ever consider a new gibson.

In 1996 I bought a L5CES-T in Cherry. I had to wrap tape around the pickups to be tighter against the mounting ring, because the guitar rattled so much. The flower pot logo was kind of cheap looking. It just was decent, pretty nice, but was nothing inspirational.

It seemed like an extra 10% effort would have made that a much better instrument. I haven't bought an L5 since that one.

You have played Shaefer guitars? They look nice.