JBL line array

[rpjazzguitar]

Last night I played an outdoor gig.

I expected to be able to go through the PA, like I had before, which is the JBL line array with 7 inputs.

My rig was supposed to be ME80 > Little Jazz (speaker off) > Line Array. Previously, I brought an XLR to XLR cable and they plugged it in.

This time, they'd added a drum mic and didn't have any more XLR inputs. They needed a 1/4" line.

So, I tried to use the LJ. Turned it up all the way and did the same on the pedal board. Sounded better than I expected, but nowhere near loud enough. It was so inadequate I thought it was broken. In fact, I'm still wondering about it, even though it was fine when I got it home.

I carry a bag of extra stuff in my car which, fortunately included an XLR to 1/4" which I'd forgotten about. It worked fine.

Anyway, the point of all this is, that when the rig finally was hooked up, I got a terrific guitar sound. All the other instruments were into it too, except the bass, I think (he had a big ol' Ampeg). The whole band sounded great through that line array.

In fact, all my (few) experiences with line array as guitarist (Bose compact and this JBL system) and vocalist (Bose Compact) have been terrific.

I understand that line array can have some undesireable characteristics in the way it projects over distance -- if some instruments aren't thru it. But, in the right situation, it's great. I guess that's not news to most people, but it has really made an impression on me.

Particularly for vocals, both on stage and in the audience, it just sounds natural, somehow. No muffled bass, no boxiness, no sense that you're hearing something from one direction which is visually clearly coming from somewhere else. It just sounds natural.

[SierraTango]

I've been very pleased with my EV Evolve 30. It's cut down on setup time and cords, sounds great and can control it via Bluetooth. I gig with a Trumpet guy, mic him off, and have vocal mic for some vocals and announcements. We've played outdoors, indoors small and large venues with it. It's never failed to deliver what we need.
Although I have used the dedicated guitar channel straight in with a 1/4" patch cord, the best tone I get is with my Little Jazz 12 XLR out to the EV.
I constantly receive complements on our sound. Seen in the background in this photo.

[ccroft]

Weirdest guitar amp I've seen, but love the 880 so I give you the benefit of the doubt :-)

[SierraTango]

Weirdest guitar amp I've seen, but love the 880 so I give you the benefit of the doubt :-)

I really don't think of it as a guitar amp, more like FOH. Depending on the venue, we can place it behind us as pictured, to the side or wherever sounds best. As I mentioned, it has a dedicated 1/4 input voiced for guitar and it does a pretty good job. However, I found better tone lined out via the XLR on my Little Jazz 12. I was skeptical of the unit at first but quickly became a believer after working with it.

Thanks for the compliment on the 880. I would usually be playing my 90 Benedetto Cremona, however it was cold that night and I opted for the Pisano. As you know, it's a wonderful instrument!

[DawgBone]

Particularly for vocals, both on stage and in the audience, it just sounds natural, somehow. No muffled bass, no boxiness, no sense that you're hearing something from one direction which is visually clearly coming from somewhere else. It just sounds natural.

I think line arrays sound pretty weak and tinny for a P.A system and I much prefer the older style. It's just a bigger sound, probably in part because there is ground contact with the speakers instead of just hanging them from the rigging. Much like lifting an amp off the stage, there goes the coupling effect that enrichens the tone, or to some, makes it muffled and boxy.

I honestly don't think I'd pay to attend another festival or concert if I know they are just using line arrays. I saw Buddy Guy through a 50,000 watt system with massive stacks of speakers and subs and then I saw him where they had a few line arrays, both festivals. It wasn't even comparable. Bikers were fighting at the front of the stage at the big stack concert, people were yawning at the line array event. And it was "bright" sound which I find gutless and tinny. You get more clarity with the line array but that's about it and clarity often equals harsh trebles. The line arrays I see at most of my gigs are always used in places where the volume has to be dumbed way down.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think line arrays sound pretty weak and tinny for a P.A system and I much prefer the older style. It's just a bigger sound, probably in part because there is ground contact with the speakers instead of just hanging them from the rigging. Much like lifting an amp off the stage, there goes the coupling effect that enrichens the tone, or to some, makes it muffled and boxy.

I honestly don't think I'd pay to attend another festival or concert if I know they are just using line arrays. I saw Buddy Guy through a 50,000 watt system with massive stacks of speakers and subs and then I saw him where they had a few line arrays, both festivals. It wasn't even comparable. Bikers were fighting at the front of the stage at the big stack concert, people were yawning at the line array event. And it was "bright" sound which I find gutless and tinny. You get more clarity with the line array but that's about it and clarity often equals harsh trebles. The line arrays I see at most of my gigs are always used in places where the volume has to be dumbed way down.

Interesting. I don't have a lot of experience with them, but so far it's this.

Vocalist + piano bass drums. Sounded great with vocals and keys thru it.

guitar bass drums keys, 3 vocalists, all but bass thru the Line array and it sounded great. that included my guitar.
as a sometime vocalist, the best sound I ever got was with line array.

country guitar bass drums and vocal trio with an expert guitarist. One line array, outdoors, covering 100 feet or so from the state, sounded brilliant.

Keys in a bigger band, outdoors -- seemed to project further (into the parking lot!) than the other instruments, which was odd, but it sounded okay in the audience.

standard PA, in my situation is usually something cobbled together without a sound man. So, the comparison may not be fair.

[SierraTango]

I think line arrays sound pretty weak and tinny for a P.A system and I much prefer the older style. It's just a bigger sound, probably in part because there is ground contact with the speakers instead of just hanging them from the rigging. Much like lifting an amp off the stage, there goes the coupling effect that enrichens the tone, or to some, makes it muffled and boxy.

I honestly don't think I'd pay to attend another festival or concert if I know they are just using line arrays. I saw Buddy Guy through a 50,000 watt system with massive stacks of speakers and subs and then I saw him where they had a few line arrays, both festivals. It wasn't even comparable. Bikers were fighting at the front of the stage at the big stack concert, people were yawning at the line array event. And it was "bright" sound which I find gutless and tinny. You get more clarity with the line array but that's about it and clarity often equals harsh trebles. The line arrays I see at most of my gigs are always used in places where the volume has to be dumbed way down.

Well, sure, who wouldn't rather play through a 50K tri-amped P.A. with subs, mid-range and horns? And a nice on stage foldback system? Really makes the Harley bikers want to have a tussle.

If you want to carry all that or have a crew to help out, that's good on you. In my case, we play at pretty low volumes in mostly upscale venues. With no bass or drums. I don't know if that's considered "dumbed down" or just keeping the gig.

I have found E.Q. on the Evolve to be my friend as far as harsh trebles are concerned.

[Cunamara]

I dunno, some line array system don't sound tinny.



Of course, it had ~30,000 tube watts via McIntosh amps. The bass line arrays were one for each string through a quadraphonic pickup. Each speaker had only one input signal from any instrument or voice. At 30' tall and 100' wide, weighing something like 75 tons, it wasn't something that'd be practical for a jazz gig. And it bankrupted the band. As the old saying goes, nothing exceeds like excess.

My old band had an occasional gig where the house sound system was a Bose line array; I never had time to figure out how it worked, so I just used my own amp and moved theirs off to the side. I always wondered what it would've sounded like to play through, however. From this thread and previous ones, it sounds like some people really like using them. if you are intent on sounding like it's 1958, these might not be for you. But even Tal Farlow used a Bose 901 speaker array in the last few years of his life, so I think there was still some forward movement technologically among that generation.

[ccroft]

We used to tour with something in between: 2 ported base bins w/ two 18" each, cheese-cutter horns, a rack with a few Crown amps & rack stuff, mixing board, and floor monitors. I was in my 20's back then and we had some help, but it was a load.

Sierra's EV looks a whole lot easier on the back, much quicker to get going, and a lot cheaper to move. I think it looks cool, and there's some room left on stage once it's up. If I ever need a PA I'll be looking at that.

[DawgBone]

Well, sure, who wouldn't rather play through a 50K tri-amped P.A. with subs, mid-range and horns? And a nice on stage foldback system? Really makes the Harley bikers want to have a tussle.

If you want to carry all that or have a crew to help out, that's good on you. In my case, we play at pretty low volumes in mostly upscale venues. With no bass or drums. I don't know if that's considered "dumbed down" or just keeping the gig.

I have found E.Q. on the Evolve to be my friend as far as harsh trebles are concerned.

LOL, agreed.

I've just noticed in the last 15 years or so with rising noise complaints for big festivals and concerts held near urban areas there has been a switch from larger P.A's to comparably miniscule line arrays. The listening experience was greatly reduced as I saw acts at the same venue and once the switch to line arrays was made the volume and punch was pretty much non-existent. But perhaps that was more trying to comply with dB restrictions more than the system itself. However....

I was also basing my remarks off personal experiences at some gigs at larger venues (500+) I've done that are using line arrays. All said and done I don't think a line array of the same power will put out as beefy and thick of a sound as a traditional P.A. That probably matters very little in a genre like jazz, and perhaps the more hi-fi line array sound even benefits the fidelity there. But in stuff where bass and kick are a little more of a core component it really waters down the results and I get left feeling cheated. Imagine going home from a rock show without your ears ringing. RIP OFF. It's like a festival that only serves N/A beer.

[Cunamara]

Like a festival that only serves N/A beer. LOL! Yeah, metal through a line array might not be so good. I saw The Wolf Brothers at a venue with two line arrays, one on either side of the stage, which was very loud (too loud, actually; I had to wear earplugs to tolerate it) and had good fidelity- but that was indoors in a medium sized space. Outdoors the game might be very different.