PA question

[Doctor Jeff]

Last night I played through a PA at an event with a singer. With my ES-175.

The piano guy had the sound system. I didn’t recognize the name, but it was a small with digital interface. Seemed fancy. Lots of speakers.

I don’t normally play through a PA. I had my Fishman Artist with me, and had the sound dialed in to my liking. A little reverb and chorus. It made a great monitor, btw. The problem was plugged into the PA there was a horrible feedback/wolf tone on the lower G. NOT there with my amp alone. I adjusted my amp’s antifeedback filter to no avail.

He did a little tweaking with the low end, and it got better, but didn’t go away. He and the audience said “it sounded fine” from the cheap seats.

The few times I played through a PA (with a group) I never had this problem. I was using my ES-135 at the time.

The other funny thing was listening to a recording some distance away, my guitar sounded delayed compared to the singer. I know I wasn’t really behind her from my position just to her right. Maybe because I was using chorus, so the “attack” was delayed? Or was it a weird acoustic effect, guitar vs voice?

Also, I don’t think the effects (chorus on one song, tremolo on the other) came through the PA nearly as well as through my amp. But then, I wasn’t in the audience, so hard to tell.

Anyway, needless to say I don’t like PAs. I MUCH prefer controlling every aspect of my sound. Then there’s no one to blame for a problem but me.

Any thoughts on dealing with feedback and wolf tones, and getting the best sound when plugging into a PA?

[marcwhy]

[Doc, keep in mind: singers are always off!]





I rarely play with a PA, either; a friend of mine, however, solved his problem with one of these, and others I know use Bose-type systems.

Glad you're giggin'!

[ccroft]

"lots of speakers" could be the problem. Sounds like one of them might've been too close to your guitar. Or they weren't directional enough. Did you have a floor monitor pointed at you perhaps?

I used to play with a group that packed a large PA. If there were the kinds of problems with PA's that you describe I don't think live performance could happen.

Operator error? Not enough highs in the mix to reproduce the chorus correctly? Too many lows from trying to 'warm up' the sound causing feedback? Badly placed speakers? Monitors to hot?

I have no suggestions as to what might cause the delay.

[rpjazzguitar]

If I knew how to control feedback, I'd probably play an archtop.

That said, maybe one of those speakers was pointed a little too accurately at your guitar. Archtop players often talk about how to angle their speakers to avoid to much pressure on the top of the guitar.

I like playing through a PA. When I have a need to be loud, and the venue doesn't have a PA, I bring a powered speaker and a mixer.

Semisolid guitar (335 type). Boss ME80. Into my Little Jazz amp (for the way it is voiced). Then into a basic Yamaha mixer (shouldn't need it for guitar, but it helps with the EQ and I can use it for vocals or announcements). And, finally, into a Mackie SRM 350 or a house system. I can use the LJ as a monitor if needed, or turn the internal speaker off. I like the sound. Like the LJ, but louder.

Bringing all that stuff and plugging it in is a hassle, but I don't have to do it very often, so I haven't figured out anything better. I suspect that a smaller powered speaker would be just as good for my application. Also, that I could use the ME80 for the EQ I'm getting out of the mixer.

One other point. Last night I played with a group that had two mics set up. One (one of those squarish looking chrome mics you may see on talk shows) went through a Bose L1 (or similar) and the other (cigar shaped) went through the pianist's monitors, EV somethings. Piano sounded great.

The quality of the vocal mics couldn't have been more different. The Bose system sounded terrific. The other one, by comparison, really suffered. I don't know why they didn't plug the other mic into the Bose, which I think has a rudimentary mixer.

[Spook410]

Feedback is a sympathetic vibration. The more resonant the instrument, the more it will be a factor.

Typical solutions:
- Lower volume
- Don't stand in front of the speakers. Behind or to the side.
- Use EQ to isolate and diminish the frequency causing the vibration. Start looking around 200hz going up and down. Is often a pretty narrow band. Flat top preamps often offer specific controls for this.
- Make the guitar less resonant. F hole plugs were once available. Get the impression no longer. Some go as far as filling their guitar with packing peanuts.

[Herbie]

Sorry to hear that. But in the end, PA is Your friend. At least if You want to be heard.

I have had similar experience even without PA. Some rooms just have so called standing waves that resonate like crazy. Then You – or the PA guy –should have tools for compensating that. Usually a graphic eq.

And then if someone has gadgets (like PA), he or she should have a skill to use them. And kill the humming G.

You didn’t tell if the amp was mic’ed or did You plug it straight from the amp. If it went straight, the sound in the PA couldn’t be same as from Your amp, because You heard the speaker of Your amp too.

Then there is other possibilities starting from the adjustments of Your guitar etc. All I can say surely: wish You better sounds next time!