Yamaha SA2200 vs Ibanez AS2000 PLEASE HELP

[Christian Miller]

I’m confused. Don’t accountants buy Collings?

[m_d]

Beyond your tone that rant is absurd. You set out to prove Yamaha sound better than Ibanez guitars based on both companies'... balance sheets ?? A ridiculous claim, as everybody knows both can make great guitars, and the two contending models are regarded as largely equivalent.

[Skip Ellis]

Gee, nowhere did the OP have anything much to say about the tone and playability of the guitars which, to most of us, is more important than how much they pay the janitor to sweep the floors. Regardless, these guitars are FACTORY MADE instruments and there, indeed, might be slight differences in small details but I can't understand throwing an entire company under the bus due to the perceived lack of finesse shown in some solder joint. As someone said, it appears that he started out to prove that the Yamaha was better and he may or may not have succeeded anywhere beyond his own perception. There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I wouldn't put much stock in them when deciding which instrument to buy - if it plays good, looks good, and sounds good, it's probably OK regardless of what a 'deep dive' into the financials say - large companies buy and sell each other all the time - it's just business. I'd suggest spending a little less time 'researching' a company's financial history (which means squat BTW) and a little more on doing a 'deep dive' into improving one's playing. Oh, and I've been building and repairing guitars for most of 50 years and 1.) I don't have any idea what he means by 'bonding' and 2.) I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that these companies are using 'super glue' to put their instruments together - there are much better things to use........end of rant.....

[John A.]

I’m confused. Don’t accountants buy Collings?

Since when do accountants earn that much?

[John A.]

Gabby Johnson's ... oops, I meant NYC's wisdom and insight is truly overwhelming. All I can really say in my enthusiastic reaction to it is this:

[supersoul]

Am I the only one here who only buys instruments based on the company's horoscope from the date their founding papers were filed?

[Rob MacKillop]

I can only repeat that I’ve had both instruments, and that I found them very different to each other. I preferred the Yamaha for Blues, the Ibanez for Jazz. Anyone who has one or the other has a decent guitar.

[caue amaral]

No offense, you're making yourself sound like an idiot. Companies have to buy materials, pay for labor and pay for quality oversight and scrapped attempts in production that don't meet quality controls. Each one of these points, has more than one option a company can choose. They choose to either take the less expensive route or the more expensive route (when they could have taken the cheaper route but wanted to offer a better product so the higher quality expense was incurred)

You don't know any of this without looking at financials.

Its not about the "sound" of financials, dumbass. Its about what the company is choosing to do and how quality of a prodct they manufacture by way of those decisions..... which in the end, does what? Yes you guessed it.... SOUNDS better. That better sound being the entire reason they made those more expensive choices in production and materials.

None of that can be known unless you look at a balance sheet buddy.

....listen, before you cry about me sounding like a dick.... you asked for it.... and yes, im belitelling you becase you sound like an idiot. just think about it...

Friend...I didn't insult you like that...like you are doing! I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't call you an idiot or something else in an online forum...that's not decent or worthy...simply because where I come from, only a coward does that...men only say that kind of face to face thing! Look good with your new guitar, it's excellent!

[bluejaybill]

Ok, this is opinion. Don't want anyone to get up in arms and offended. Both are beautiful.

Physical and cosmetic build - Yammy wins:
Hands down, the yammy is a finer hand crafted instrument. you look at them side by side, pick them up, handle them, and this just jumps right out at you immediately. The bonding around the instrument and fretboard is clearly hand detailed and so consistent all around the instrument whereas the ibanez you can tell when looking closely the bonding is slightly wavy in areas, as if it were rushed a little bit. This is cosmetic and doesn't matter - but it speaks to the time and attnetion that went into the instrument in general and the quality control oversight of the manufacturer. The weight distribution is somehow so nicely balanced with the yammy also. The ibanez seems so much heavier in the body and disproportionately light in the neck and headstock. Maybe not noticable as much outside of the context of holding them both side by side. which may be the solid mahogony neck, but yammy wins here too. Finally, the luster of finish and appearance in general is just better with the yammy. Yammy wins by a long shot in this category of physical and cosmetic build.

The inlays on the fretboard are genuine mother of pearl, and split inlays meaning twice the inlay labor time for the luthier. Ibanez inlays are synthetic not mother of pearl. Acrylic. I gently opened both up to get a look at the internal electronics. This part really sealed the deal for me. Seriously. The sodering work and electrics were SOOO much more thoughtful and organized and clearly clearly clearly hand wired in the yammy. The ibanez it literally looked like everything was quickly soderd, wires were all seriously stuffed into the cavities. It just seemed rushed.

The cosmetics takeaway is that the ibanez seemed rushed and the quality control making things were perfect, just wasnt there like it was in the yammy. Night and day.

Functional build - yammy wins:
The layout of the pickup selector switch, volume and tone knobs is somehow really nicely arranged with the yammy. They just work, i don't know what to say other than it flows nicely and nothing is in the way of each other. You can tell someone thought this through very well. The ibanez gets crowded with the coil split switch being crowded in with the pickup selection switch and the 4 knobs. its just too much and i found myself having to think for a minute when i wanted to adjust things on the fly. This didn't happen with the yammy. Also, you can coil split both pickups with the yammy which is nice. Only the neck pickup splits with the ibanez. The neck shape is personal preference, but I find the yammy's neck very unique in a wonderfully nice way.

This, to me, is night and day also but i guess a lot of folks dont pay attention to woods or maybe they dont care?.... BUT...

Ibanez body front back and sides is Anigre. Anigre is new to the musical instrument worlds in the grand scheme of things. Its inexpensive to buy relative to some of the other traditional woods. One would choose to use it, because of the reduction in cost. Simply no other reason, its by definition - a lesser quality tonewood. This is a big minus to me and honesstly you hear it. Then the neck is maple and mahogany, with a layer of glue of course. howevery they use super glue - not hide glue. another cost reduction. cost reduction by way of price of material but also more importantly by way of cost of skilled labor to use and work with hide glue assembly which is a more complicated process.

Yammy body top back and sides is maple (sycamore). This we all know has been used in hollow body musical instruments since the beginning of musical instruments. The middle ages. It is more expensive than the experimental anigre in the ibanez. The center block in the yammy is also maple but a much softer maple, dried and aged. A sustain printer! The neck is solid one piece mahogany. all glue within the instrument is hide glue.

Bottom line, when you really deep dive into these instruments - the yammy blatently has taken every opportunity to voluntairly incur extra expenses to obtain high quality materials, higher quality labor by way of the processes you see they're using and choosing to use over a cheaper alternative, and tight quality control re the cosmetic things mentioned. It's ice distillation of the build diffeno contest.

Nice distillation of the build differences, but not one mention of the tone? I think we would all prefer the better build quality- after we played it for a bit and liked how it sounded!

[bluejaybill]

No offense, you're making yourself sound like an idiot. Companies have to buy materials, pay for labor and pay for quality oversight and scrapped attempts in production that don't meet quality controls. Each one of these points, has more than one option a company can choose. They choose to either take the less expensive route or the more expensive route (when they could have taken the cheaper route but wanted to offer a better product so the higher quality expense was incurred)

You don't know any of this without looking at financials.

Its not about the "sound" of financials, dumbass. Its about what the company is choosing to do and how quality of a prodct they manufacture by way of those decisions..... which in the end, does what? Yes you guessed it.... SOUNDS better. That better sound being the entire reason they made those more expensive choices in production and materials.

None of that can be known unless you look at a balance sheet buddy.

....listen, before you cry about me sounding like a dick.... you asked for it.... and yes, im belitelling you becase you sound like an idiot. just think about it...

Wow, I think we have a new low for this forum- and after only 17 posts! You should be quite proud!

There are several failures of logic in your argument, starting with the fact that a company with bad financials can make, yes you guessed it, a BETTER SOUNDING GUITAR! It can even have not so great build quality and be a BETTER SOUNDING GUITAR!

The best guitar I have was built by a custom luthier- hey, you guessed out, NO BALANCE SHEET! Heck, he could have passed away in the middle of my build and I would have been out a very large chunk of change.

Not only that, but lacking a financial statement I have no idea if he uses cheap wood, lousy glue etc. I just gone on gut instinct based on the builder's reputation and how they sound.

There are people on this site who have decades of experience in these things on this site, I myself have 55, and I don't consider myself an expert. But I do know this: in 55 years, I've never read the balance sheet of a guitar manufacturer, and somehow I've managed to survive that oversight and ended up with with 10 great guitars. Good luck with your new guitar.

[m_d]

I can only repeat that I’ve had both instruments, and that I found them very different to each other. I preferred the Yamaha for Blues, the Ibanez for Jazz. Anyone who has one or the other has a decent guitar.

I don't know the Yamaha. I could have bought it but he Ibanez crossed my path. They are both storied instruments: Biréli Lagrène and Jon Herington played the Yamaha and Scofield the Ibanez. I don't recall Biréli's sound on the Yamaha, but Jon's in Steely Dan were definitely bluesy-Carltonesque - and beautiful.

[frankhond]

Just to get a fact right. Laminated necks are often a feature of high-end / boutique builders because if done right, it increases neck stability and resonance.

It can also be a feature of cheap guitars to maximize wood use, and if done right, can have the same benefits.

Whether Ibanez uses super glue to laminate the neck is debatable, but it seems unlikely. The main feature of wood glue is slow curing, giving a factory worker time to assemble and clamp. Super glue cures fast and is harder to work with for large areas. OP probably confused super glue with non-hide wood glue.

Main driver of price in a tone wood is scarcity. With some traditional tone woods, imported from Latin America, becoming scarce, it makes sense to look at alternatives. There are many well documented woods that have excellent tonal properties.

All that being said, buy the guitar that feels and sounds best *to you*. That’s how Sco started with the Ibanez, he compared it with his 335 and the Ibanez won.

[tomassplatch]

Hello, I recently purchased a pre-owned but pristine Yamaha SA2200. I confirm what others have said about the build quality, it is really impressive. Tone-wise I would say it is between a Gibson ES 335 and the Ibanez AS Series (although I only tried the older and cheaper one AS103) in terms of brightness/thickness of the sound. it is brighter than a Gibson but you can get quite close when you lower the volume and the tone of the neck pickup to 6-7. Bridge pickup is even brighter with almost glass-like qualities, I'm not a great fan. It screams for fusion and modern jazz tones, usable for blues (very thick and warm tones from lower strings). The Ibby I tried was very good, the tone was brighter and less "thick", maybe a less lively body, but has a unique Scofield-y sound, I don't know how to describe it. Both are nice, question of taste, here is a nice video that shows the differences quite nicely (mind that the Ibby is not the same model)