String Detuning

[Mark M.]

Hi guys. I’m looking for help in solving a mystery. I have had a set of TI Swing 12’s on my Trenier since May of 22 and overall they still sound and feel fresh. However, recently the high E won’t stay in tune. It will detune by a half step after about 20 minutes of playing and a whole step overnight. I have had this happen before on this guitar with the same brand of strings. I just swapped out the offending string with a new replacement and checked the tuning peg which seems fine. There is no noticeable play in it and the peg doesn’t move when I try to turn it without turning the key. Humidity in the room where I keep the guitar is consistent at about 50%. All the other strings in this (admittedly old) set seem stable. So, I’m assuming it’s the string even though the ball end looks normal and not stressed.The winding at ther peg head seemed stable and well wrapped. Am I overlooking anything?

[wintermoon]

How about the nut and bridge slot?

[Mark M.]

Thanks, WM. They seem fine. The string seems properly seated in both with no gaps, pinching, or damage. Perhaps there is some wear at the nut. I can watch for that.

[Mark M.]

So far, the tuning is holding with the new string.

[rpjazzguitar]

Pull on the strings before you put it away to make sure they aren't binding at the nut or bridge. Then, if the problem still exists it's probably a flaw in the way the ball end is attached. Most likely the latter since binding isn't going to detune a whole step, I wouldn't think.

Or, maybe the worm gear in the tuner is marginal?

[Mark M.]

“Or, maybe the worm gear in the tuner is marginal?”

I’m wondering about this. Everything seems tight and they are excellent tuners (Kluson Wafflebacks). But, anything can fail. Wouldn’t I be able to feel some looseness or play in it?

[Oscar67]

First thing is to eliminate the string itself. For sure. After that, it’s got to be the guitar and the most likely options are the nut (string not moving freely), bridge (ditto), the ball anchor point, the tuner. If you have a tune-o-matic, also check if the saddle is secure. Something moves and it can be traced.

[Jim Soloway]

It's rarely the tuner. Check all the other options really carefully.

[skiboyny]

How is the string installed? Do you bend at 90 degrees begin to wind take the excess in the opposite direction underneath the string at the pole and pull up? If not that may help.

[sgosnell]

Small plain strings which aren't properly locked in place can slip. It doesn't take much slippage to go down a half step or two. IME this is the usual cause of the symptoms described.

[John A.]

I know folks here boast of leaving a set of TI's on their guitar for months or even years (decades! CENTURIES!). But truth be told, from May 22 to now is a fairly long time for a plain string to be on a guitar (especially if you're playing a lot in sweaty weather). Some combination of plain old wear & tear and perhaps something off with the string is by far the likeliest explanation for this problem.

I've never had strings go out of tune months after installing them because I installed them "wrong" (and I certainly have installed them wrong, which might cause a string to take a little longer to settle in). Nor have I had in imperfect tuner cause strings de-tune (I have had completely destroyed tuners do that). Ditto for friction at the nut or bridge (that might cause a string to break).

None of this stuff would cause a string to all of a sudden stop holding tension. That's either a bad string or catastrophic (and obvious) failure of something (e.g., a tuner imploding, a structural failure in the guitar itself). If the OP changed the string and the problem went away, problem diagnosed and solved.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

You didn’t mention intonation. If it remained fine despite slacking a bit overnight, I’m as mystified as everyone else. But if intonation was also affected, the string may well have had a very fine crimp or even a microscopic fault that finally started to propogate after 16 months of vibration. This would create a spreading area of decreased string diameter and weakening that would cause what you describe.

If that’s what happened, a few more retunings would have revealed the area when it broke.

[John A.]

You didn’t mention intonation. If it remained fine despite slacking a bit overnight, I’m as mystified as everyone else. But if intonation was also affected, the string may well have had a very fine crimp or even a microscopic fault that finally started to propogate after 16 months of vibration. This would create a spreading area of decreased string diameter and weakening that would cause what you describe.

If that’s what happened, a few more retunings would have revealed the area when it broke.

Yup.

[Mark M.]

Thanks for all the great replies. The new string is holding up just fine. So, it seems it was something with the string. But, I always learn some things from this group!