Anyone heard of a Gibson Super Citation?

[Bluedawg]

This looks interesting, but I'm not sure what this really is.

Gibson "SUPER" Citation 1990s - Blond | Reverb

Looks like a prototype for the Le Grand more than a Citation.



Very cool if it's real.

[jads57]

I believe this before they made Citations as part of their line up again. They originally made them in the late 1960’s and quit after not making too many.
The interim model was the Kalamazoo Award, which was discontinued as well. There is an article in an older 1990’s Vintage Guitar Magazine about reviving the Citation model.

[Bluedawg]

There's a very small number of late 70s and 80s Citations that are out there according to some sources I've read.

1981 Gibson Citation Vanderbilt Rose finish | Reverb

But the Kalamazoo was what I remember advertised in the 1980s catalogs.

[tbeltrans]

Never heard of it, but then I hadn't heard of the Citation until a thread here. The one linked by the OP has "bubbles" on the back like my Citation does.

Tony

[gitman]

That's quite a mongrel re some details like
- the singe-bound f-holes - Citation has triple binding
- extra wide (bone ?) nut - not pearl as on most Citations
- Super-400 inlay
- normal logo , not in script
- no volute, no binding on back of headstock

Could this be an employees guitar, just a one-off ?

[ThatRhythmMan]

I believe this guitar was one of a large collection sold out of Hawaii earlier this year. Several of the guitars sold individually and then the bulk remainder sold. Many others the guitars were significantly modified and some just seemed a dubious to me with no documentation. This being one of those. The woods look nice, but several things, including even the label look a bit off to me. I can’t say if it’s legit, but I think there is a big caveat emptor here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

What worries me the most (apart from the general proliferation of embellished production instruments passed off as special editions) is the simple availability of “reproduction” serial number labels from all eras available on the web, like this -

[customxke]

I even the label look a bit off to me. I can’t say if it’s legit, but I think there is a big caveat emptor here.

Orange "Kalamazoo" label from the 1990s is suspect.

[Bluedawg]

I believe this guitar was one of a large collection sold out of Hawaii earlier this year. Several of the guitars sold individually and then the bulk remainder sold. Many others the guitars were significantly modified and some just seemed a dubious to me with no documentation. This being one of those. The woods look nice, but several things, including even the label look a bit off to me. I can’t say if it’s legit, but I think there is a big caveat emptor here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are some other nice-looking archtops at the same Reverb site, "Best Guitars" in New York.


There's a Super V, a Citation, and a Kalamazoo Award currently for sale in this shop ... as well as a 1960 LP and a 57 strat.

[wintermoon]

Doesn't seem that odd to me. It has the extended moustache headstock, heel and pearl truss rod cover like a Citation but Super 400 inlay and split blocks, but w/ abalone slashes and head cheese [mottled] Super guard. Not sure why single ply f hole binding, you'd figure on a deluxe guitar it would have 3.
I don't think it's an employee guitar, probably just a one off or guitar that never made it to the production line.
Someone like Gruhn or Walter Carter w/ access to Gibson records might know. I'd probably contact them before buying if I was interested.
That thing looks like it was kept in a smoke filled room, the woods are really ambered out and the binding is very yellow.

I think the bigger question is why a long time high end dealer like Menza is still using a cheap ruler to measure nut widths instead of a decent set of calipers.

[deacon Mark]

This is a situation that in the end I would prefer to have a plain old regular Super 400c. That it conforms to the basic catalog description of the the guitar. One offs can be ok but sometimes depending on the situation they don't end up being anything better and detrimental in selling down the road. One exception would be a Gibson Super V acoustic in that some players do not want and 18 inch guitar. Then you get the Super 400 neck. Also, I am not a fan of round hole archtops they never have cause me ear to find them better than an f hole. The F hole has a better panning of sound in all directions and fuller in presence. I know QAman likes them but that goes to show you how we hear guitar differently.

The other things about this Citation/S400 is that if it is some fake or someone doing something you really have to have talent to pull that off. So, if you could do that then to me you probably ought to simply build your own guitar.

[gitman]

That uniform orange/amber all over is for sure not the result of it being exposed to tobacco smoke - I've seen other guitars that were sprayed like this at birth ...
There is a photo of a Citation with a similar color in the Tsumura book and also a D'Aquisto New Yorker that's not a sunburst but a rather dark "violin" shading.
More oddities : the size and shape of the f-holes, the very prominent 7-ply bound pickguard against single-bound f-holes, the placement of the tuners on the headstock ( higher up than usual), the output plug in the side rather than the endpin - it's surely not a fake Gibson but most certainly someone stayed in the shop after hours, liberally grabbed into the Gibson design catalog and "threw" this guitar together with whatever he came up with. For me it's a "Mongrel-Citation" but not a "Super-Citation" ! Who knows, maybe it sounds just great but a) it looks unplayed and b) the price of admission is way too high, IMHO.

https://www.vintageguitar.com/wp-con...New-Yorker.jpg

[tbeltrans]

My Citation (built in 1995) has the pickup jack attached to the pick guard like on a Johnny Smith except that this is a 1/4" instead of 1/8" jack that my old Johnny Smith had.

Though I have no logical explanation for this, my personal preference for a Citation, Johnny Smith, Le Grande, etc. is sunburst rather than natural or some solid color. Here is a view of mine for comparison to the OP. It is all original (except the strings, of course).




Tony