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Hi Guys,
I know its been bandied about here, but I'm still not clear.
I have a set of MINT cosmetic condition Sealfasts coming back to me in a couple of weeks (attached to a VERY special guitar).
I remember 4 years ago, they were tight. And had play in them. After 4 years of tender loving care (and a bit of inactivity), they are probably going to be tighter.
I'd like to save them. The new Kluson Sealfast repros are probably the right choice, but upwards of $400, thankfully they are out of stock everywhere.
I've spent enough money already, and if I could save these and keep the guitar original, that would be perfect. And, I am a tinkerer who gets MUCH joy out of fixing stuff!
Has anyone successfully regreased original Gibson sealfasts? These are from 1976.
They have a nut that threads into the gearbox. Has anyone removed the nut and got in there with a solvent, cleaned them out and injected new modern lubricant inside?
Here is a picture of the tuners. Notice the nuts that attach to the body of the tuners.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give.
Joe D
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08-03-2023 08:34 AM
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I know a couple of very talented people that have unsuccessfully tried to clean and relubricate them. They're packed w grease and its like putting toothpaste back in the tube. I suppose anythings possible/never say never (I think our own Hammertone knows) but basically, nope. I've got a wonky high E on my gigging '69 L-5, it stays in tune but when changing strings won't completely turn to loosen and I have to cut the string off after turning it a bit. I have spare tuners but am too lazy to change it until it becomes unmanageable.
They're called Sealfasts but could very well be called Sealedforevers.
If they have a little play but stay in tune just use them as is or start saving your money and keep looking.
Sorry....
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WM, Thats what I was afraid of. Thanks Buddy.
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One thing you might try is to heat the tuners - gently, just enough to melt the old grease - and work them. A peg winder will work, easier with a cordless screwdriver and a peg winder bit, readily available. The grease gets hard when it sits, but melting it often loosens everything up and mixes the hard parts in with the softer parts. I don't think I would do this on the guitar, although it should be possible. The heat won't help the nitro. The heating could be done in an oven, or with a soldering iron, heat gun, whatever is available. Just be careful and don't heat it more than necessary. A half hour or so in an oven on the lowest setting should suffice, and give the grease time to melt. Spinning the mechanism for awhile is also important, I think, to get all the grease evenly distributed again. I would start the spinning slowly, just in case there is some binding, and be mindful of using too much torque. If you use a battery-powered screwdriver, you can control the torque by holding it loosely in your hand. It does require some practice, and a regular peg winder might be better if you're a little hinky about doing it. It's clumsier, though.
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You know, that’s a good idea! You gave me hope!
I was hoping a solvent and then some machine oil would re-flow the grease. And give it some more usable life. Along with my babies tuners.
Let’s see.
JD
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I remember buying new Gibson archtops in the 70’s and those tuners being crap from day 1. The new repo’s on my modern S400’s are smooth, precise, and with no free play.
I would spend the $400 when they are back in stock.
Till then use a hypodermic needle and De-Solv-It to try and thin the hardened grease. They used that old white lithium grease that gets hard like a old crayon.
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I thought about the heating thing, maybe a hairdryer. No way I'd leave them on the guitar though.
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Well if they are completely enclosed with no way to get solvent inside the tuner then heat would be the trick. Yes, just take off the tuner and heat it with a hair dryer for sure. If you can get some solvent inside to work, I will tell you an old bicycle trick we use to revive Shimano Shifters that get sticky from the grease over the years. I absolutely works and I have saved guys many times buying a new shifter.
You take the tuner off and spray it with WD40. Get it good and saturated with the stuff. Possible do it in a small pan to hold the tuner and spray then let the tuner sit in the WD40 for awhile. Then take it out and wipe off and completely dry and start working the mechanism like you are tuning up a guitar. Actually I think it will work because the tuners are not airtight and the WD40 will work it way inside the enclosure.
Note that WD40 is not corrosive and will not harm the gold plating or button. I say give that a try. The other thing is WD40 is easily evaporated leaves no real problem or residue behind. It is not a lubricant either as such as many think. I tell you I have revived many 10-year-old shifters that have been used for over 50k miles riding. Tuners I would try in a heartbeat.
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the gold w/ gold buttons are out of stock
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I use Kroil original formula penetrant for this. It’ll get through the tiniest opening and loosen up almost anything. But if there’s free play in the tuners, they’re worn. Softening the internal lubricant will not make this better - only new tuners will fix it.
Sadly, this is part of the total cost of ownership. If the right replacements aren’t available, the choices are to temporize or to buy less expensive temporary replacements until what’s really needed becomes available again.
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Some really good advice from the members here, I appreciated it!
Deacon, The WD40 trick is a good idea. Funny thing, I just did that very same thing on my GT Team Avalanche with LX shifters and it worked perfectly.
I am still wondering if anyone has ever tried to remove the nuts on the Sealfasts. Because if they can be safely removed, I can absolutely get Kroil, De-Solv-It, WD or any other product in there just by spraying it down the shaft. And I wouldn't have to soak the whole tuner in the stuff. Just shoot it down the shaft.
Vin, You are so right about the lithium grease. I used that on my garage door tracks and within a year it was hardened.
JD
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Just a picture that shows the underside of the tuners.
I should Easily be able to get solvent down the shaft, without even removing that nut.
I was just hoping someone here actually did this before.
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The machining clearances were sloppy on those tuners.
You be able to improve the stiffness.
The DE-SOLV-IT will soften the grease but will also evaporate.
Do that first. Then completely soak them in liquid WD40 not spray.
Soak them for at least 24 hours completely submerged.
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Got it bro.
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A personal preferance, I tend away from WD40 because it's petroleum based, it's essentially kerosine, so my preferance is finding Tri-Flo in a non aerosol drop and applicator tube form. I don't worry about any adverse effects with lacquers or anything that might not take to petroleum based solvents.
Tri-Flo is teflon in suspension. I put a drop anywhere where it can penetrate and it gets in there and does a nice job with coating and lubricating surfaces.
Just a two cent thought from my shop shelves.
Good luck.
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Tri-Flow is great stuff but you want that petroleum base solvent to keep that hardened petroleum grease soft.
The real problem isn’t lubrication it is grease that turned into a hard crayon inside the sealed tuner.
After a good soak in WD some Tri-Flow can definitely be good sprayed down the shaft too.
Like I said they can be improved but will never be great.
They weren’t great new.
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JBN and Vinny
I got so much great advice here, and I really appreciate it.
When I do fix the problem, I will post exactly what I did, step by step. With pictures. Because this seems like a problem not isolated to me..
Also in the mean time, I put myself on a list where I will be notified when the Sealfasts with the GOLD buttons come back in stock.
I will probably just buy a new set and fix these up and keep them in the case pocket.
The next tinker-fest will be to tend to a noise or a grounding issue that has developed in the Jack/Pot contraption, under the pickguard.
I am getting pretty excited about this guitar coming back to me. It will be somewhat permanently set to a drop D tuning and all I will play on it will be Johnny stuff..
Thanks guys.
Joe D
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Bro another project down the road would be to eliminate that cheesy pickguard jack and convert to a more stable end pin jack setup.
A high quality guitar cable is a tone factor.
Those cheap gray ones Gibson supplied are garbage.
Enjoy the remarriage
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When I bought my Johnny Smith way back when, the owner apologized to me for taking liberties with the guitar. There was a plastic bag with that janky cable jack and two cables, and the crumbs of an off gassed pickguard which was replaced by an ebony. It had an endpin jack and it was solid. On the contrary, I told him, now it's perfect! Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Bro another project down the road would be to eliminate that cheesy pickguard jack and convert to a more stable end pin jack setup.
A high quality guitar cable is a tone factor.
Those cheap gray ones Gibson supplied are garbage.
Enjoy the remarriage
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yeah vin, I recently encouraged a forum member to do just this, end pin jacks are the way to go. and imagine how many nasty rim cracks on archtops would never have happened if side jacks never existed. the original electric guitars, the Gibson ES-150 and 250 w/ Charlie Chritstian pu had end mounted jacks. I'm guessing Gibson moved away from them as they made attaching straps difficult but that could have been addressed in some way. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Bro another project down the road would be to eliminate that cheesy pickguard jack and convert to a more stable end pin jack setup.
A high quality guitar cable is a tone factor.
Those cheap gray ones Gibson supplied are garbage.
Enjoy the remarriage
as for the grey cables, many things made back in the day were better than today, but cables aren't one of them.
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Hahaa.
You guys dont get it.
That crappy ass grey chord contributes to the "special" sound the GJS makes. I proved it yesterday.
I have a crappy old Gibson grey cord from my fathers 175. I tried it on one of my L5s yesterday through closed back headphones and you can actually hear the acoustic and electric sound mixing. Then, I switched to nice shielded cable and the mixed sound went away, and was less bright for sure.
I LOVE that mixed sound.
LOVE it!
Thanks boys.
JD
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lol, what you're hearing is a junky cord that doesn't transmit a good signal, that's why the acoustic properties 'stand out' Originally Posted by Max405
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Maybe THATS part of the magic of the GJS!
I guess, Im REALLY gonna love this guitar once I get an endpin jack installed with a proper shielded cable..
Thanks Vin & WM.
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Ah Hah! The secret to my crappy sound is in your GJS cord! I thought it was in my chords! Originally Posted by Max405
Good to know… I feel better
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