The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    Wintermoon:
    I have often wondered when the two-fitted bridge became available. I have tried to get a definitive answer and I assumed that Tom Van Hoose’s Super 400 book is probably reliable. On page 115, he seems to say the two-footed bridge base came out when the tune-o-matic saddle was introduced around 1954. Does that sound right to you?
    Keith
    Interesting input but I don't read it like you. If I'm correct it's not an indication if prewar L5 bridges were single or 2 footed.

    I've just browsed again the site dedicated to prewar Gibson L5 (Advanced). I brief look at the page dedicated to advanced models shows up that a small number of them have a 2 footed bridge (see Serial Number: EG-5026 or Serial number 97675). However, it's difficult to say when a picture is taken from above if it's single or 2 footed (see mine which has a 2 footed which doesn't show up on the picture here Serial Number: FA 5015). OTOH these 2 footed bridges could be replacement parts. So the question is still open for me...

    Best and take care.

    Fred.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
    Interesting input but I don't read it like you. If I'm correct it's not an indication if prewar L5 bridges were single or 2 footed.

    I've just browsed again the site dedicated to prewar Gibson L5 (Advanced). I brief look at the page dedicated to advanced models shows up that a small number of them have a 2 footed bridge (see Serial Number: EG-5026 or Serial number 97675). However, it's difficult to say when a picture is taken from above if it's single or 2 footed (see mine which has a 2 footed which doesn't show up on the picture here Serial Number: FA 5015). OTOH these 2 footed bridges could be replacement parts. So the question is still open for me...

    Best and take care.

    Fred.
    interesting Fred, both of those bridges are the exact same rounded edge style which gives me pause. maybe Gibson was experimenting w/that style then.
    on the other hand a friend has two '39 Epiphone Deluxes w/ that exact bridge.
    so not really sure if they're original to those guitars. the one on your guitar is a different two footed style, almost like some ES-175s have.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    Wintermoon:
    I have often wondered when the two-fitted bridge became available. I have tried to get a definitive answer and I assumed that Tom Van Hoose’s Super 400 book is probably reliable. On page 115, he seems to say the two-footed bridge base came out when the tune-o-matic saddle was introduced around 1954. Does that sound right to you?
    Keith
    Attachment 103515


    yeah Keith I was thinking of acoustic L-5s that have single footed bases but many electric 50s models have the two footed bridge Tom referenced. Probably concurrent w/ tune o matic tops.
    what does your dad's/yours have?

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    From Tops: thick or thin? (prewargibsonl-5.com):

    << Author Tom Van Hoose mentions this on page 10 of his book: 'The Gibson Super 400', where he states: "The difference in thickness between the two tops was approximately 1/16 th of an inch, and the thin top version had a somewhat lower, thinner bridge base than the thick top version". >>

    << So, did the terms 'thick' and 'thin' refer to the actual thickness of the finished top or the thickness of the blank from which it was carved? >>

    << Stewart adds: " Andre Duchossoir (author of 'Gibson Electrics - The Classic Years') suggested that the billets themselves might have been different sizes ... >>


    An archtop guitar bridge can comparably easy be changed or replaced, while the guitar won't change its main tonal character.
    What's more important: the guitar body or the bridge? And how would the guitar salesperson or customer know that they had to deal with a different guitar body?
    Yes, Gibson, IMO, must have used spruce blanks of different thicknesses to make thick top (the regular model?) or thin top models, and that was to what the "1 1/8" had been pointing. Conversely, this would imply that they used two different soundboard templates or models for reading off when making the copies on the pantograph router.


    Whether they used just one template (like on my oversimplified little drawing above) or two different ones for the routing process: not only gets the soundboard thickness changed, but also the arching curves and their height.
    We all know that a thinner top, especially a thin recurve, results in a boomier sound. My 1996 L-5WM with a comparably thin top, and very little gradation differences between the center and the recurve, is the boomy monster. A thick top tends to be sharper and more percussive, just like one would expect of many prewar L-5s.
    An insight into the top thickness is given on Gibson L-5 top thickness (prewargibsonl-5.com) , and we see the thickness range reaching up to a bold 7.6 mm, with many measuring points reading around 5.6 mm.

    When you thin out such a guitar top by 1/16", using the same tonebar dimension and string set, you'll weaken the top stability considerably: stiffness is proportional to thickness cubed (not squared!). The solution of the luthiers has been for centuries to add stiffness by simply increasing the arching height. Of course, this is neglected, if your CNC-machine puts out hundreds of identically dimensioned soundboards, and, yes, a major post-processing by hand would be possible, though quite time-consuming and demanding for a highly trained and skilled person, thus hard to find in the archtop guitar world today.


    Anyway, it's the arching shape that has a fundamental influence on the timbre. The slighest change in arching will increase the amplitude of some frequencies, and decrease others. Overtones are very important for coloration, completeness and presence of tone. Also, these help us hear and project articulation.
    interesting stuff for sure! I could certainly see that being the case. a thinner or thicker top would also necessitate a corresponding neck angle/bridge height
    it's been a long time but I think I've seen some of those labels marked 3/4 as well so who knows?

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    yeah Keith I was thinking of acoustic L-5s that have single footed bases but many electric 50s models have the two footed bridge Tom referenced. Probably concurrent w/ tune o matic tops.
    what does your dad's/yours have?
    Actually, that’s the reason I have always wondered about this. My dad’s guitar is an early Alnico L5CES that he bought new in 1955. It has a gold no-wire tune-o-matic with a two-foot rosewood base. It had that bridge on it as far back as I remember, so I have always assumed it was original to the guitar.
    Keith

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    Actually, that’s the reason I have always wondered about this. My dad’s guitar is an early Alnico L5CES that he bought new in 1955. It has a gold no-wire tune-o-matic with a two-foot rosewood base. It had that bridge on it as far back as I remember, so I have always assumed it was original to the guitar.
    Keith
    I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption.