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Yet scarcely anyone noticed.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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07-22-2023 04:29 PM
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out of all the Gibson archtops I’ve owned exactly zero have been new. Easy to miss. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I’m thinking of selling my 1975. Hoping for a truly outrageous return. Sale restricted to legal and medical professionals and tech bros.
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They’re buying PRS’s and factory beat-up Fenders…. You may have to wait for a passionate rich kid. Originally Posted by Bach5G
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To clarify , as the majority of semi and hollow body guitars on the market are lam not carved , it's clear that they don't suffer from tone greatly , especially amplified , and in my experiece they do tend to handle high gain and volume a bit better as well as being more rugged. I have 5 335 family guitars , love them all . That being said , I'll stand by my carved being sonically superior on an acoustic level statement. The skills to make violin family instruments and archtops is NOT disimilar, if you believe so , I would suspect you haven't built any .
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As far as I know they did not make an ES-175 with a carved top. How would one compare other than in one's imagination?
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"They " did .. the Master Luthiers at Gibson stayed on to form Heritage, and the H 575 is a carved ES175
As a Luthier I have each of my clients come over and play through at least a dozen instruments to get an idea if preferences in a head to head play test . Every single one has picked the H575 as thier favorite. A few have asked to record with it .
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The L4ces is a solid wood es175. Originally Posted by icr
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I’d take the 175 over the 575 every day of the week but they are actually very different guitars. Originally Posted by Greywolf
A better parallel is obviously the 175 and L4ces…..I’m sure there’s a good amount of variation in L4’s but the best of them sound pretty close to a 175 IMO!
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I do not know if they have problems cutting through the band. I would assume unmic'ed that band dynamics play a big role in making things come off properly. I do know this is why they use D-18's, D-28's, etc. They are loud, punchy, and cannon like. The high end has a lot of cut, more than one would generally select in an acoustic for use in other situations IMO. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I do not know if they are as loud as a loud archtop or not, I've never A-B'ed anything. My ol' lady has a D-18 and you're not having much of a conversation when that's being played by someone in the chair next to you. It's loud. i would say the D-28 is a little louder yet and a bit brighter with the ebony board and no doubt, it tends to be the guitar of choice for bluegrass flatpickers. She had a Guild D-50 bluegrass that was also very loud with a very low action set for bluegrass speed flatpicking. What I've discovered with these types of guitars is that a good one will never nose-over volume wise. You pick harder, the note sounds louder, until you are picking so hard you are breaking the strings. The top won't hit a resonance limit, it will continue to project.
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I have tried using a Martin D-28 for Gypsy jazz. A Selmer style guitar smokes it for volume and cut (when playing without amplification). The only guitar that beats a Selmer style for acoustic volume is a resonator. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I still have a couple of Selmer Style guitars in the harem. They are great for purely acoustic gigs (I do not like the sound of resonators) My Martin flattop guitars are all gone. My 1930's D'Angelicos sound better to me than any Martin that I have ever played. The guitar marketplace disagrees with me. Pre-war Martins command a higher price than vintage D'Angelicos.
But then there is a visual expectaion. If you play Gypsy jazz, it is often expected that you will show up with a Gypsy guitar (Selmer style). If you play Bluegrass, it is often expected that you will show up with a flattop. If you play jazz, it is often expected that you will show up with an archtop. Some gigs require a tuxedo and some gigs require a particular guitar. If you want to do well in this business, you learn to show up meeting expectations.
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That’s what I would have thought. Django boxes can be ungodly loud. But somehow still not loud enough.
Anyway I’m off the SelMacs. I have a strange relationship with GJ I have to say…. I’d rather leave it to the people who actually want to do it… the way those instruments sound have such immediate and inescapable cultural associations.
Maybe it’s similar with bluegrass instruments, esp banjo. Don’t know.
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One can play Gypsy jazz (and use a Gypsy guitar) without being a slave to orthodox 1930's Django style guitar. And one can use a Martin flattop (or any kind of guitar) in Gypsy jazz or straight ahead jazz. Here is a video from some years back where my trio backed Country music singer Ginny Mitchell (she still hires me to provide a trio to back her for concerts from time to time). In this video, we are all acoustic. I am playing a Dupont MD-20 and the other guitarist is playing a Martin D-41. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Yeah that’s a cool thing to do. Not for me though. Maybe I’ll go back to these guitars, but i really struggle with the fact that everything comes out like Django, and I don’t much care for the sound for anything else. Maybe if I had a better selmac guitar! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Never say never but I’m certainly on a break.
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Yeah that’s a cool thing to do. Tbh the sort of thing I would do a lot on a selmac a few years back. Maybe I’ll go back to these guitars, but i really struggle with the fact that everything comes out like low rent Django, and I don’t much care for the sound for anything else. Maybe if I had a better selmac guitar! I did spend time studying him enough to get the style, but it’s always felt like a style. It feels like putting on a beret and affecting an outrageous French accent. You know it’s fun for five minutes … Originally Posted by Stringswinger
The problem is people like it when I do it as well so I have to do it more haha. B*st*rds! (But I’m not into it enough to become a Big Beast so to speak.)
Also amplifying those things is a bit of a pain.
So my attitude towards that stuff is - I’ll more then happily play the music but I’m not going to be a Django guy. If people like what I do in that genre enough to give me gigs, great, if not then the genre probably isn’t for me.
I’ve done my time playing in a style that doesn’t quite feel me. I’ve never really been part of the scene or ever particularly wanted to go to Samois etc, so it feels fake. I know people who live and breathe that scene and who are great at it. Good for them.
Re the SelMac - never say never but I’m certainly on a break. Maybe if the right guitar comes along I’ll eat my words! Wouldn’t be the first time.Last edited by Christian Miller; 07-23-2023 at 02:36 PM.
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No question, amplifying a Gypsy guitar is not easy (or any acoustic guitar for that matter). And truth be told, those guitars sound best when a rest stroke picking style is used. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
For someone who is not dedicated to sounding like Django did in 1937, I offer the following advice, if you want to take advantage of the volume the Gypsy guitar affords in a purely acoustic setting ,get a Gypsy guitar from a maker whose guitars are a bit of a crossover. I suggest the guitars of Shelley Park Shelley D. Park Guitars - Home
John Monteleone is a big fan of Shelley's guitars and he was a friend of Mario Maccaferri and built a few "Hot Club" guitars of his own. IMO, there are no finer Gypsy guitars than a Shelley Park (I own one), but if a more traditional sound is required, I suggest a Dupont. And if a Non-Django style jazz guitarist has one of these guitars and wants to amplify it, use a magnetic pickup (I use a Krivo.)
But again, unless you are a slavish Django imitator (or a bandleader requires that you have one), you do not need a Gypsy guitar to play Gypsy jazz. I have seen Bireli Lagrene do it on a Strat!
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which is the way I play them, and I have a pretty good rest stoke picking technique… thing is as soon as you start to do that, you get that kind of sound. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
obviously it’s not at all easy to ACTUALLY sound like Django and we have the likes of Duved who’ve dedicated their lives to recreating his style. But from a lazy point of view you hear that sound and the type of vocab we all feel obliged to play and ‘guitarist channels Django natch.’
The difficulty of getting a consistent amplified acoustic tone on the instrument made me less inclined to find a way past this.
I soon realised instead that plug Gibson into Fender = fun times. Or even amplifying a steel or nylon flattop is vastly easier and these days leads to much better results. The sound I can get out of my cheap flattops with a Tonedexter is amazing live.
indeedFor someone who is not dedicated to sounding like Django did in 1937, I offer the following advice, if you want to take advantage of the volume the Gypsy guitar affords in a purely acoustic setting ,get a Gypsy guitar from a maker whose guitars are a bit of a crossover. I suggest the guitars of Shelley Park Shelley D. Park Guitars - Home
John Monteleone is a big fan of Shelley's guitars and he was a friend of Mario Maccaferri and built a few "Hot Club" guitars of his own. IMO, there are no finer Gypsy guitars than a Shelley Park (I own one), but if a more traditional sound is required, I suggest a Dupont. And if a Non-Django style jazz guitarist has one of these guitars and wants to amplify it, use a magnetic pickup (I use a Krivo.)
But again, unless you are a slavish Django imitator (or a bandleader requires that you have one), you do not need a Gypsy guitar to play Gypsy jazz. I have seen Bireli Lagrene do it on a Strat!
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This^ Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I actually came across this advice from some random forum member on some random forum I wasn't even a member of many years ago while I was just google searching stuff with regards to blues tone. I decided to roll the dice and take a risk since I was looking to do a lot of downtown gigging and didn't want to try and tote head+cab+pedals on dirty 6th. Bought an ES, sold my strats. Traded my Marshall and some pedals for a Twin at a shop. I like it so much I will never use a different arrangement again if I can help it. There are so many tones available from two humbuckers and the vol/tone controls that even though it is essentially the same rig as many of the blues greats you can still find "you" on the exact same gear.
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What's that about? Originally Posted by ccroft
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I absolutely love my 575... Originally Posted by RyanM
But its not a 175. I'd love a 175 some day. Not too concerned about Gibson not making them anymore, yet, as who buys a new Gibson anyway?
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Very Groovy!!!!
Thanks for posting.
Tony D.
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Apparently, this is also because they shut down the factory that made them. Apparently, astonishingly expensive guitars, subpar quality control, and trying to focus on being a lifestyle brand rather than a guitar brand leads to your company crashing and burning. Who knew? Maybe celebrate it with the 9 billionth edition of the Slash Epiphone? All the youngsters are all over him.. definitely brings in the new customers. And he's got a silly hat!
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