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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know! I just sold a bunch of pedals because I don't like effects. I don't like buzz, I don't like harsh, and I don't like flat (as in adynamic). But I do love the sweet, smooth sounds that Carlton, Ford, Vito, Landreth et al get from a Dumble - and I've gone through many pedals and boxes trying to find a reasonable facsimile. By George, I think I've got it. I recently read an article about the Dumble Steel String Singer and the pedals that claim to duplicate the SSS front end. The one preferred by the author was the Vertex SSS, and the description made it sound like it was worth pursuing. But I won't buy anything again that I can't try first in a quiet room with my own guitars. I bought a Rockett Touch, a Rowin Dumbler, and a Wampler Tumnus Deluxe within the last few years and a few others further back in time without benefit of a trial with my own stuff, and none of them lived up to the hype or my expectations.
The closest Vertex dealer to me is a really cool little shop in Easton, PA called The Sound Parcel. They had all 3 Vertex SSS models in stock, so I headed up there with my Ibanez AF207 (loaded with a Benedetto B7 wired for coil split through a PP pot) to spend as much time as I needed to wring them all out. After a half hour with each, I was fairly confident that the SSS Supreme "SRV" did what I wanted it to do and took it home. It adds the chime and bloom of a Dumble SSS, adds very smooth OD, and doesn't suck the bottom out of my tone like most other pedals do. Pushing the gain pot all the way up adds some grain that I don't like. But keeping it below about 1 o'clock, it's as smooth as glass. And with the gain just a hair into traditional OD territory, I'm getting a great blues tone with serious sustain from my solid bodies.
This is a very subtle pedal. But as soon as I turned it on the first time I used it on a gig, our bass player said "Wow - what did you do? Your guitar sounds more alive." And after 10 or so gigs with it over the last month, I still love it. I can also set it to add some of the "octal" fat that I hear in demos of the Junior Barnyard. I'm still on the learning curve and trying every combination of settings, starting with the least dramatic. I spent an hour or so making this set of recordings to hear what it does in isolation. The next set I plan to make will be mic'ed through my Blu, and I'll try to get something from the club using the Vibrolux. I've used this through the house system, the Superblock US, the CS PR, and the Vibrolux, and it's different through each one. I think I'm going to stick with this one.
Here it is recorded directly into my DAI with no effects or processing at all:
guitar direct - no FX
Steel String Singer channel alone
Supreme channel alone
both channels with low gain (signal runs through Steel String Singer, then Supreme)
both channels with higher gain
pickup switched to SC - both channels with high gain
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07-09-2023 09:04 PM
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Your playing sounds great, as always.
The pedal does sound decent but Vertex man....I would never buy any of that stuff. I'm not sure a more dishonest pedal maker exists. Maybe Devi Ever...lol
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Thanks for the compliment. Now that I watch the videos, I realize how hard I was concentrating on trying to remember and play the first take again and again. I should have written it out, but I’d already started the second one, so I tried to come close.
Originally Posted by DawgBone
But I don’t know anything about the company - I never heard of them until reading the article that set me on the chase. What’s the story?
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Here is a question: have you had a chance to try the Ethos?
In regards to DawgBone: that was also my first thought. (I did not know about Devi Ever).
In relationship to the Vertex story:
You can look up the controversy.
From memory, it is (or was) a one person boutique builder, that was taking one of the ts9 type pedals, (maybe a cheap mass produced Chinese clone), and then putting it into his own enclosure. He then sold as a unique boutique pedal for a boutique price.
I forget the early JHS controversy. I forget the Wampler controversy. I do remember that Mike Fuller of Fulltone (I have has name correct), is a complete jerk… in the sense that he is mean to people. (I forget where that is documented). I wonder if that had any impact on Fulltone ending and not continuing.
I also remember that the love pedal person had some issue with support and has been said to be rude. I had an expensive Love pedal. It broke, it was gooped, and thus completely unfixable. I reached out in an email, hoping for a reasonable priced replacement. Never heard back. That was the last gooped pedal I bought.
I think in luxury items, it might be better to have a bit of the “wild west” type of thing, then the mass produced ossified stage that comes next.
(I have allready noticed this ossification taking place with Earthquaker pedals and maybe with Pigtronix. Pigtronix has the “we build weird pedals” branding, so maybe it will end up like EHX. Perhaps a little cheaply built but still interesting. However EHX was always cheaply built).
However transparency is always important.
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I haven’t heard of it before. I just looked at the website and they’re clearly into the same vibe I am. But the model that’s described as doing what I want (OD preamp & amp) is 2 1/2 times the price of the Vertex SSS SRV. I don’t see a dealer list, so I’d have to take another chance. For now, I’ll stick with the SSS and try to find the sweet spots for my needs. I’m only bringing an archtop to most gigs now, and I need to get it in a more modern vein for the occasional pop, fusion, etc. Originally Posted by st.bede
Thanks for the industry back stories. It’s a rare business that doesn’t have any baggage. Stuff happens, and it’s the response that defines the maker / vendor. Those who make and sell the best products often have little experience with product problems, so they may blow them off or respond inappropriately because they don’t understand or believe the complaints.
Frank dishonestly may be more common than I’ve experienced. To the best of my knowledge, I haven’t been sold any bogus or intentionally misrepresented items. Then again, I haven’t opened up the Vertex pedal - I hope there’s not a Nux SSS inside
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One that's been famous lately on the Dumble vibe is this one, with tubes and all. It seems like a perfect replica of the actual amp, but never tried it. Had the Ethos and found it a little bland and uninspiring.
THE BEEKEEPER
– TubesteaderLast edited by jorgemg1984; 07-10-2023 at 04:05 PM.
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He took BBE wah's IIRC and repackaged them and sold them as to-die-for boutique wah wahs, at a substantial upcharge no less, among other transgressions and while making other false claims. He got caught. I don't remember if he owned up to it publicly or not but regardless he still had an attorney sending cease and desists to the heavier sources of criticism. His general pattern of behavior doesn't appear to have changed much that I am aware of but truthfully I don't buy many pedals these days and have paid less attention to gear in general in the past few years. Hopefully we are all a little better people than we were a few years ago. Best-dawgbone
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I had a peculiar correspondence with Mr. Fulltone a few years ago. The Obsessive Compulsive Drive (OCD) pedal was all the rage. I got one and expected it to have a smooth sound as typically described, but it sounded harsh to me - lots of intermodulation distortion with chords that had anything in them other than octaves and fifths. I could find no setting that didn't produce the zingy sound, which made it unusable for me. I assumed it might be defective and sent him a note inquiring about it. I wanted to it work and was expecting him to suggest quick tests of settings to verify its proper operation, and if failing that, a suggestion to exchange it for another. Instead he just abruptly suggested maybe its sound just wasn't for me, no interest in whether it might be defective. Originally Posted by st.bede
Another round of correspondence I realized the problem; the thing uses symmetric hard clipping which doesn't sound so good through one's amp but can sound good through a board and PA system. Sound qualities that get sucked out of the signal going through the front of house electronics and speakers are compensated by the vivid zingy sound of the pedal. I don't go through those systems, so it just sounded zingy. No good for small venue jazz...
Every few years I pull out an old pedal for an hour or so... always put it away and continue to remain barefoot.
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Yeah Vertex doesn't have a great reputation. Behringer does something similar copying Boss circuits and putting it in a plastic housing and they are able to sell it cheaper. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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… you are right, Same thing with Moore, and a countless number more. Maybe I am forgetting something. Originally Posted by nyc chaz
… here is something I found Open letter from Robben Ford regarding Vertex Effects | vertexeffects.com
seems good enough to me… I would buy a Vertex pedal.
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Now that's interesting! This Vertex pedal sounds different through each amplifier I've tried with it. The first time I used it, I ran it into our Reddi Box (a high end tube DI that's truly fantastic) to the house system, which is a full tilt boogie stacked column high powered QSC system with tweeter boxes on top and a pair of 18" subs under each side. With the clean blend knob halfway up, it did the Dumble thing well and everyone from the audience to the sound guy to the band loved it (as did I). Originally Posted by pauln
I tried the same settings through the CS Princeton Reverb at the next blues brunch and didn't get the same chime. It did a nice smooth Robben Ford style boost, but I had to cut the clean blend to almost zero. I assume the powered tweeters in the house system were responsible for the chime that was missing from the Princeton. I tried it through the VIbrolux and got the same effect.
Interestingly, there's a bit more chime through the Superblock US and either the 6.5" Toob or the 10". And the Blu 6 with the tweeter on has even more. So a lot of the benefit of the pedal is in the highs and is lost through a plain old guitar amp.
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Deleted
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If you're aware of gear history, it has happened several times before, with different companies. It's very hard to patent a guitar pedal circuit, so it's there to copy for anyone who can do reverse engineering. Behringer has copied other companies besides Boss, the difference is they might not say it but don't exactly hide it either - they make cheap copies of other people's pedal. Not original, not good build quality, just cheap. Only someone without Internet would be "fooled" by Behringer. Originally Posted by nyc chaz
Vertex rehoused old BBE pedals and resold them as boutique, so not cheaper but more expensive. That's a whole other ball game. And there's even more stories, Google is your friend, as they say. To me, the best part about the whole Vertex thing, was the amount of people saying his Wah pedal was the best ever made and all that Internet hype, and in the end they were just (unknowingly) playing a regular old BBE wah. Very funny (a similar case happened on the recent Mofi analog digital vinyl scandal)
Now, that doesn't mean Vertex pedals don't sound good. They just might do, despite all the scandals.
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And a lot of these boutique pedal (and amp) circuits are straight out of electrical engineering textbooks.
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I've bought alot of stuff from The Sound Parcel, over reverb. Because I like supporting "locals" (I live 30min away in NJ). I'll have to stop by some time and check the place out in person.
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It’s a beautiful shop in what used to be an industrial complex of some kind. If I understood him correctly, it was the owner’s father-in-law who was manning the store the day I went there. He’s a retired recording engineer who deals in vintage audio, and we had a fun time swapping stories. Originally Posted by ruger9
Sound Parcel sells an amazing and huge variety of equipment - Evans, Milkman, Neve, Magnatone, Vox, Mono, Hal Leonard, and dozens of other great lines. They also have guitars (but no archtops, apparently), pro audio, and a nice comfortable, quiet showroom (free of shredders, at least when I was there) in which to try their wares.
I love the place after two very helpful phone calls, one visit, and one purchase. I’ll gladly buy anything they sell that I need in the future. I just hope my first experience there was typical.
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Well now I DEFINITELY must go. Do you recall how their acoustic (flattop) selection was? Did they have an "acoustic room"? Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I never got past the front part of what looks like a decent sized space. I had to be back to get ready for a gig, so I was focused on trying the Vertex pedals and heading home before rush hour. Between going from pedal to pedal and swapping tales from the good old days, I ran out of time. Originally Posted by ruger9
There’s a wall of guitars and basses, but all I saw in a quick glance were solid bodies. Their website shows several flattops in stock, although more are sub-$1k than over. They do sell Tim Teel’s flattops, which I suspect are excellent given his role at Martin. I’d have loved to play one, but I didn’t even have time to ask about them.
The site is very useful once explained - they show many items that are available but not in stock. They couldn’t possibly carry even one of everything they rep. But (at least according to the guy who sold me the pedal) they update their site daily, clearly labeling out of stock items so you know what’s in the shop and what has to be ordered. And it was accurate on their stock of the various Vertex SSS models.
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These things are mysterious, often counter-intuitive. I have an SD-1. This pedal is still in its first version since introduced over 40 years ago, a classic, etc. I always through it had too much high end - kind of tinny, brittle, metallic, raspy, etc., all things I don't like. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I noticed that all the various boutique mods included clipping a cap in the tone circuit, experts claiming that just that accounts for about 80% of the mods' sound change. I clipped the cap and immediately liked the pedal. It now had MORE high end but it was a different high end - clean, clear, transparent, airy, etc., all things that I really liked in the tone up there...
I would never have thought that the fix for a tone with "too much high end" would be "more high end"!
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Actually they did update it with the SD-1w Waza Craft. It has 2 settings, the "modded" setting ("Custom") and the original setting ("Standard"). Originally Posted by pauln
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I have one, I like it. I heard that Robben Ford plugged a Hermida ZenDrive into a Fender Twin when he did not want to fly with his Dumble around. I am not an overdrive connoisseur but I have gathered a bunch of overdrive pedals over the years and now I suffer from choice paralysis and end up using the overdrive that comes naturally from my tube amps. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Good to know, one day I'll get one, probably. Originally Posted by medblues
Yeah, the Zendrive is a great pedal for that - getting a good overdrive sound out of a clean amp, which is part of the Dumble magic, a very good clean sound a very good overdriven sound on one channel. Most overdrives are made to go into an an already cranked amp, and don't sound good when used used in front of a clean amp, but the Zendrive does, although I enjoy the RAT or the Klon more for that purpose (mainly the Klon). There's probably more options, but since I play clean 99.9% of the time and everyday there's a new overdrive out, I have not kept up with the new ones (which are probably derived from the classic pedals, anyway).
I have not enjoyed much natural overdriven amps, tbh. I know people go bunkers and use all sort of tricks to get the Deluxe at 6 sound at bedroom levels, but I never enjoyed that sound much, and because Fenders are only one channel you're stuck with either clean or dirty. Derek Truks is probably the only exception I remember, he gets a great sound out of a cranked Super Reverb. Dumbles (and Boogies) have a lot more versatility in that regard. I do like the Fender cranked sound with a Tube Screamer though, that's a very good match, for blues/rock.
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I have a Blackheart Killer Ant ( 0.25 Watt) for natural overdrive at bedroom volume. It has only one 12AX7 and sounds Bluesbreakerish. Another trick I use is turning all three tone knobs on my Carr Rambler down to zero (which silences the amp), then turn the volume all the way up at the triode mode and start adding signal from the tone knobs by turning them up tiny bit each time which gives me a very saturated thick tone with moderate overdrive. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Ah, that Carr trick does sound cool. Maybe you'll convince me on amp's overdrive after all Originally Posted by medblues
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I think Ford cascades a Vertex Boost pedal into a Zen. There have been multiple versions of the Zen since the original came out, with some garnering love and others not so much. I may try a Smokin Amp Company Zensation one of these days. Originally Posted by medblues
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