Loar 700 with floater - 1st bandstand gig with no power

[garybaldy]

It's time a got an outdoor gig worthy battery powered amp.
I'm mostly going to be using my Loar with a floater but at times could find myself having to use an archtop with inset HBs or a solid body.
Which is preferred - an acoustic guitar amp or an electric guitar amp?
Your amp suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks

[sgosnell]

Any Class D amp with a portable rechargeable power station. I have a Beaudens, but there are others. They supply both 120VAC and DC power, and will last for several hours. A tube amp will deplete the charge pretty quickly, but a Class D amp will run for much longer than a usual set. Mine weighs maybe a pound, lithium ion batteries are very light.

[garybaldy]

Any Class D amp with a portable rechargeable power station. I have a Beaudens, but there are others. They supply both 120VAC and DC power, and will last for several hours. A tube amp will deplete the charge pretty quickly, but a Class D amp will run for much longer than a usual set. Mine weighs maybe a pound, lithium ion batteries are very light.

I was contemplating a battery/rechargeable amp rather than a power supply for a mains amp but it's definitely an option I'd consider. In which case I'd probably use a polytone mbIII. How would that fair duration wise? BTW I'm on 240v in UK. Thanks

[Webby]

I don't have any experiences with battery powered amps, but I'm kinda happy with my current setup, which consists of an acoustic amp, that i just put a preamp Pedal in front of when I need an electric Sound.

Paul

[John A.]

It's time a got an outdoor gig worthy battery powered amp.
I'm mostly going to be using my Loar with a floater but at times could find myself having to use an archtop with inset HBs or a solid body.
Which is preferred - an acoustic guitar amp or an electric guitar amp?
Your amp suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks

What kind of groups? How loud do you need to be?

[Cunamara]

Any Class D amp with a portable rechargeable power station. I have a Beaudens, but there are others. They supply both 120VAC and DC power, and will last for several hours. A tube amp will deplete the charge pretty quickly, but a Class D amp will run for much longer than a usual set. Mine weighs maybe a pound, lithium ion batteries are very light.

One obvious advantage of this is that you have one amp that you can use for any gig: outdoors using a battery power pack, indoors plugged into the mains power supply. Plus, class D amps tend to be small, lightweight and compact so easy to hustle in and out of the gig.

[garybaldy]

What kind of groups? How loud do you need to be?

Currently it's a 6 piece old style jazz ensemble playing mostly old written arrangements eg Sid Phillips. The other instruments are tuba, trombone, trumpet, sax and clarinette. They are always un mic'd but I am through an amp. There has always been power for me in the past.
I occasionally play string bass through the polytone, sometimes with drums. Also Gyspy with a Favino and piezo.

[Christian Miller]

Get a battery PA and a preamp. I’ve got some great tones for swing guitar using that set up.

I would recommend trying the Loar magnetic pup through an acoustic preamp like a Baggs Para DI. You may be surprised at the acousticness of the result.

The only thing you may lack is a nice reverb, but I never want that for this type of music. I understand some preamps have reverb built in.

[Christian Miller]

Oh you can also get one of them camping batteries and run whatever you like. Haven’t tried it myself but it works apparently.

for myself I use a Roland Mobile Cube which is the size of a handbag and is fine for small drum less gigs. But portability is at a premium for me.

[RJVB]

In which case I'd probably use a polytone mbIII. How would that fair duration wise? BTW I'm on 240v in UK. Thanks

The only suggestion I can give you is to figure out what the internal power supply converts that 240VAC into. If in any way possible you should be running more efficiently tapping directly into that low-voltage DC circuit.

[st.bede]

I like my ZT Lunchbox (200watts). They also used to make a ZT Lunchbox JR, but it was 35watts. Probably not really loud enough for gig use. The JR does have a separate battery pack: 8 double As, and ZT states it will run for 4 hours.

[John A.]

Currently it's a 6 piece old style jazz ensemble playing mostly old written arrangements eg Sid Phillips. The other instruments are tuba, trombone, trumpet, sax and clarinette. They are always un mic'd but I am through an amp. There has always been power for me in the past.
I occasionally play string bass through the polytone, sometimes with drums. Also Gyspy with a Favino and piezo.

I was going to suggest something like a Roland Street Cube Ex or a Fishman Loudbox, but the more I think about it the more I think a portable power supply + whatever amp you like is the way to go. An outdoor jam I go to sometimes uses one, and I plug my Fender Champion 20 into it. Works great, and the power supply powers a a PA, keys, bass and guitar amp for hours without running out of juice.

On my own, I use a Roland microcube, but it’s not loud enough to be hears with other instruments.

[RJVB]

The other instruments are tuba, trombone, trumpet, sax and clarinette. They are always un mic'd

I guess some people would mic a church organ ...

[Christian Miller]

One thing about acoustic amps is they seem to in some way compress or ‘spongify’ the onset because I think that’s what flattop players like. Those amps always sound much better to me with a flattop guitar.

I think I like much more immediate and direct response for swing guitar which is why I kind of prefer, say, a PA unit to an AER.

[sgosnell]

The Polytone probably will pull more power than a Class D, but should last long enough for a gig. Power supplies sold in the UK should charge with, and output, 240VAC. Most of the Class D amps I've seen are switchable, and can use both 120V and 240V. The biggest advantage of Class D amps, IMO, is that they draw very little current when idle, and only as much as needed when driven. Older amps draw close to the same amount of current when idle as when driven.

I bought my power supply mostly as a backup for when we lose electricity during storms or other reasons, and that happens all too often here. Texas is not connected to the rest of the US power grid, and the power companies have bribed the governor and other state officials enough so that they don't have to keep any reserve capacity.

[garybaldy]

Oh you can also get one of them camping batteries and run whatever you like. Haven’t tried it myself but it works apparently.

for myself I use a Roland Mobile Cube which is the size of a handbag and is fine for small drum less gigs. But portability is at a premium for me.

Thanks. The RMC looks good. Would one of these old Peavey Solos be any good and compete with a few wind players? I believe it's supposed to be 12w ( 7w more than your Roland!!!). There's one for sale in my area going dirt cheap. Cheers

[garybaldy]

The Polytone probably will pull more power than a Class D, but should last long enough for a gig. Power supplies sold in the UK should charge with, and output, 240VAC. Most of the Class D amps I've seen are switchable, and can use both 120V and 240V. The biggest advantage of Class D amps, IMO, is that they draw very little current when idle, and only as much as needed when driven. Older amps draw close to the same amount of current when idle as when driven.

I bought my power supply mostly as a backup for when we lose electricity during storms or other reasons, and that happens all too often here. Texas is not connected to the rest of the US power grid, and the power companies have bribed the governor and other state officials enough so that they don't have to keep any reserve capacity.

The Beaudens that you suggested previously looks a great piece of kit.
I'm not sure of the maths but if the polytone is running at say 100w continuously I guess I'd only get about 1.5 hours use from one charge. So it looks like a whole re think in terms of power pack + (new) amp. Thanks

[RJVB]

Would one of these old Peavey Solos be any good and compete with a few wind players?

I'm confused, apparently that is going to depend on how they are amplified?

I'm not sure of the maths but if the polytone is running at say 100w continuously

First thing to do would be to get one of those wattmeter things that you put between a wall outlet and the device of which you want to know how much power it really takes.

I'm a bit surprised too that no one picked up on my suggestion to bypass the polytone's mains PSU. I'm pretty certain the beggars who assaulted our eardrums in the Parisian metro back in the early 2000s with their amps on a trolley powered by car batteries did exactly that...

[garybaldy]

I'm confused, apparently that is going to depend on how they are amplified?



First thing to do would be to get one of those wattmeter things that you put between a wall outlet and the device of which you want to know how much power it really takes.

I'm a bit surprised too that no one picked up on my suggestion to bypass the polytone's mains PSU. I'm pretty certain the beggars who assaulted our eardrums in the Parisian metro back in the early 2000s with their amps on a trolley powered by car batteries did exactly that...

They are always un mic'd (post #7).
Didn't know about a Wattmeter, thanks.
I picked up on your 3rd point. Im not sure about delving into the back of an amp but understand the idea.
Cheers

[RJVB]

They are always un mic'd (post #7).

Oh, so you do mean they are never mic'd, always unplugged, just play acoustically etc? Sorry, but I had taken "are always un mic'd" as some British way of saying the opposite

I had a few quick glances at images from your Polytone. It looks like the cables coming out from the power transformer are pretty accessible (so a priori also to a voltmeter ), and according to this post it provides 24VDC (and possibly -24VDC)

24VDC is what you'd get from a truck battery...

Edit: I googled replacement power supply polytone minibrute III - Google Search

and also found Polytone power transformer?

[garybaldy]

Oh, so you do mean they are never mic'd, always unplugged, just play acoustically etc? Sorry, but I had taken "are always un mic'd" as some British way of saying the opposite

I had a few quick glances at images from your Polytone. It looks like the cables coming out from the power transformer are pretty accessible (so a priori also to a voltmeter ), and according to this post it provides 24VDC (and possibly -24VDC)

24VDC is what you'd get from a truck battery...

Edit: I googled replacement power supply polytone minibrute III - Google Search

and also found Polytone power transformer?

All good stuff.
I'm possiblly over cautious with dabbling with the insides of amps. Apart from my lack of knowledge I've heard so much about the problems with old polytones that seem to be difficult to solve. I bought my mbIII in mid 90s and (shouldn't say it but) it's never let me down. I did take the back off once to look at the speaker and that terrified me!

[A440]

Hi garybaldi. As a fellow brit, I thought I'd tell you about my experiences with an inexpensive battery powered amp that I bought in February. It's the Orange Crush Acoustic 30. I wanted it for potential outdoor gigs, having previously used a Roland Mobile Cube (which was pretty useless). I've grown to like the Orange so much that I've ended up using it on most gigs, with the mains adapter. It's just so small and portable! The second input for a mic is really handy for making announcements. The main input pot gives you a clean sound up to about half way, then adds some overdrive if you want it. There's scope to adjust the sound, including a switch for a Fender-type scoop (which I like), and a notch filter to deal with feedback. You can also add reverb, or chorus. I've used it at home on some good rechargeable AA batteries (2 shown in pic; it takes 10) and it lasted well over 4 hours. Obviously 30 Watts has its limits (20 watts on batteries) but it's proved to be enough for medium-sized venues. I'll be using it on battery power at a gig next month; I'll let you know if I have any problems.

[RJVB]

Obviously 30 Watts has its limits (20 watts on batteries) but it's proved to be enough for medium-sized venues.

Is that always on batteries or only when using NiMH rechargeables? Probably the former, given that 10 of those in series give you 12V instead of 15V with alkaline batteries, not exactly 1/3 less.
But: there are now lithium rechargeables in standard sizes (AAA, AA etc), and they charge over USB instead of via a dedicated charger. Those do give the normal voltage you'd get from alkaline batteries (but check their capacity rating!).

NB: if that Orange indeed runs off 12V you can also power it with a lithium motorcycle battery which will give 12V and will probably have a lot more capacity.

[Stringswinger]

An FYI regarding a litium battery with your favorite amp:

I use one of these "camping" battery packs with my Henriksen Blu 6 for outdoor, powerless gigs. I can do a 3 hour gig no problem. And I get the tone I want.There is however a ground issue. It sounds like a single coil buzz, even with my humbucker guitars. (If anyone has a solution for this issue, please post it here!)

[NSJ]

Easy. Bose S1. Really loud if you want. 5 hours on a single charge (no batteries). 2 connections, instrument cable or mic cable, plus blue tooth. Way better than any of those tiny battery powered amps.