Jazz Pedalboard with Quilter SBUS

[EastwoodMike]

Hi all
I love the constant evolution of my smaller pedalboard when a whim takes hold.
I have recently come into possession of two long term Wishlist pedals (sort of)
The first a Nocturne El Pescadoro. For those not aware it is a two in one. The right side is an octal preamp with a toggle for preamp boost. This boost features a Germanium diode (I think) in the circuit. You can set the gain of this with an internal trimpot from light pick induced hair to filthy all out fuzz. The other half is toggled for two flavours of reverb based on the Chess records 30’s style plate or chamber reverbs. Unique and divine. Alone this pedal gives a whole heap of tonal combinations, at least 16 base voicings off the top of my head.

The other pedal is not really, but it’s on the board anyway: a superblock US pedal amp. Enough has been written about this one. Why on the board?
well, it is quite a versatile combination.

As mounted I have the ElPesky in the effects loop.
I run the SB off a 9v supply off a Truetone 1 spot CS6. This lets me assign an output at 9 or 12V. Two different volume outputs from the SB as a result. I also have room for the 24V supply to plug in and take over. I also keep access to the headphone Jack. Upstream of the input sits a tube boost pedal. This setup gives me at least 7 volumes to play at, one being silent through headphones.

with the ElPesk and the SB there are 3 reverbs and 5 amp voicings.

the only plugs hanging off the side of the board is the input cable and the speaker out cable. I could possibly squeeze in a mini pedal if so inclined to add a tremolo. If Quilter ever chose to make a 50W version I hope this is the direction they choose to stretch it into.


FYI the Barkley’s tin is for picks.



Cheers and thanks for Andy on YouTube for the inspiration on the ElPescadoro.

EMike

[marcwhy]

Excellent rig, thanks!
[I set up one of my (older) students with about the identical rig: SBUS, ElPesky (love it!), and a Toob 6.5!]

Simple, light-weight, and sounds great!

My only question/comment about your setup is: this would work perfectly for home, but on most gigs my speaker is a bit behind me, so I'd need a long speaker cable ... which can get expensive!

[spencer096]

this is the perfect jazz pedalboard right here...

[Little Jay]

Great minds think alike

[pingu]

1271145[/URL]]Excellent rig, thanks!
[I set up one of my (older) students with about the identical rig: SBUS, ElPesky (love it!), and a Toob 6.5!]

Simple, light-weight, and sounds great!

My only question/comment about your setup is: this would work perfectly for home, but on most gigs my speaker is a bit behind me, so I'd need a long speaker cable ... which can get expensive!

note that if you can wire up a plug
you can make up a long as you want
speaker cable using normal ,fat ,
mains cable , cheap

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

If Quilter ever chose to make a 50W version I hope this is the direction they choose to stretch it into.

Remember that doubling the output power in watts increases maximum SPL by 3 dB from the same speaker. This is barely audible in perceived loudness. The only other audible benefit may be a tiny increase in clean headroom right at the threshold of breakup, if the spec’ed distortion level at rated power output is the same for both circuits.

Be careful buying more power by the numbers - it doesn’t translate directly into loudness. FWIW, my Microblock is rated at 45W, but it’s no louder into my Toobs than my Superblock and seems to have a bit less clean headroom.

[bluejaybill]

Great minds think alike

So THAT'S why people put these on their boards? I always thought it was a serious sweet tooth problem!

[bluejaybill]

Remember that doubling the output power in watts increases maximum SPL by 3 dB from the same speaker. This is barely audible in perceived loudness. The only other audible benefit may be a tiny increase in clean headroom right at the threshold of breakup, if the spec’ed distortion level at rated power output is the same for both circuits.

Be careful buying more power by the numbers - it doesn’t translate directly into loudness. FWIW, my Microblock is rated at 45W, but it’s no louder into my Toobs than my Superblock and seems to have a bit less clean headroom.

True, but it can make a big difference in headroom in tube amps. I have a 20 watt amp that I sometimes wish was 40 for jazz playing. But the change from 6V6's to 6L6's is also a substantial difference, and not always preferred.

[omphalopsychos]

If Quilter ever chose to make a 50W version I hope this is the direction they choose to stretch it into.

Aren't you powering your SBUS with a 12v supply? If you need more headroom you should just use the 24v power brick that quilter supplies.

Remember that doubling the output power in watts increases maximum SPL by 3 dB from the same speaker. This is barely audible in perceived loudness. The only other audible benefit may be a tiny increase in clean headroom right at the threshold of breakup, if the spec’ed distortion level at rated power output is the same for both circuits.

THIS. You get more volume increase switching from a 95-96 db speaker to a 100+ db speaker than you would from doubling wattage.

[EastwoodMike]

Excellent rig, thanks!
[I set up one of my (older) students with about the identical rig: SBUS, ElPesky (love it!), and a Toob 6.5!]

Simple, light-weight, and sounds great!

My only question/comment about your setup is: this would work perfectly for home, but on most gigs my speaker is a bit behind me, so I'd need a long speaker cable ... which can get expensive!

I just make my own cable. The one you see is only about two feet long to keep practice room clutter down. I made one about 2m long for larger spaces and just parking the Toob behind me. Thanks!

[EastwoodMike]

this is the perfect jazz pedalboard right here...

Each to their own.

[EastwoodMike]

Aren't you powering your SBUS with a 12v supply? If you need more headroom you should just use the 24v power brick that quilter supplies.




THIS. You get more volume increase switching from a 95-96 db speaker to a 100+ db speaker than you would from doubling wattage.

All true enough.
As photographed yes 12v But if I wanted more headroom and volume, I just plug in the 24v just next to the clock. The perceived volume change is significant.
I have dabbled with the thought of getting a gigrig 9-24v converter module and running that off a spare 500mA output on the one spot. That could eliminate the need for the external Quilter supply but I first need to sus out the current ratings needed by the SBUS.

I am finding that the output wattage directly is linked to clean headroom volume. That Toob has an 8 ohm 100W neo Jensen Tornado in it. I often pair a bam200 with it. Not sure of its efficiency but it should be able to get plenty loud.

thanks for your feedback!

[monkmiles]

Be careful buying more power by the numbers - it doesn’t translate directly into loudness. FWIW, my Microblock is rated at 45W, but it’s no louder into my Toobs than my Superblock and seems to have a bit less clean headroom.

Don't mean to get the thread sidetracked but I noticed the same thing between the Micro Block and the Super Block US. To me, it feels like the reverse of their output specs...like the Super Block US is 45w while the Micro Block is 25w.

[st.bede]

Now I am wanting a Nocturne El Pescadoro again. I should buy one, so I will stop thinking, I should just buy one.

What happens is I look at the Nocturne octal stuff. Then I think, why not just get an octal amp. Then I look at amps, and think I do not want to buy another amp. I then think about the Sano preamp. I have an extra cab, might as well use it. I then think about having to carry stuff, and I end up back at the pedal.

Right now I am looking at the Vintage 45 amps.

[marcwhy]

Now I am wanting a Nocturne El Pescadoro again. I should buy one, so I will stop thinking, I should just buy one.

What happens is I look at the Nocturne octal stuff. Then I think, why not just get an octal amp. Then I look at amps, and think I do not want to buy another amp. I then think about the Sano preamp. I have an extra cab, might as well use it. I then think about having to carry stuff, and I end up back at the pedal.

Right now I am looking at the Vintage 45 amps.

Besides the El Pesc, I like (and use) the Combs JJ-150 with my solid state amp. [When using my tube amps, I don't need that type of pedal!]

[and you mean Vintage 47 amps, right?]

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Don't mean to get the thread sidetracked but I noticed the same thing between the Micro Block and the Super Block US. To me, it feels like the reverse of their output specs...like the Super Block US is 45w while the Micro Block is 25w.

There are many factors that determine both actual and perceived loudness, but few manufacturers provide any except a single number - output power in watts. But there’s far more to it than that. Start with distortion at rated output. Every amp is rated at the manufacturer’s compromise point among input sensitivity, distortion, load impedance, heat dissipation, embedded safety valves (eg thermal shutdown, protection against shorted or open output, etc). This is very flexible, and an output power rating is useless in isolation.

Power should be rated at a specified input signal level, and the signal itself should be defined. Was this determined with a pure 1kHz sine wave, white noise, or other? Into what load was it measured - 4 Ohms? 8 Ohms? Even the choice of volume pot taper affects perceived loudness because one amp may be as loud at 11 o’clock as another rated as having the same output power is at 3 o’clock even though both may be equally loud with volume pots fully up.

Start with the simple, basic fact that every amplifier you can buy will pump more than its rated output power into a given load if driven by an input signal above that at which it’s spec’ed. But the rated power is only the power at which the distortion level is an acceptable compromise (with power) to the designer, the maker, the vendor, and the end user. One amp may have 10% THD at its rated 25 W while another may have 1% at the same output rating - and this is definitely audible. The top audio component makers specify all relevant parameters and are very conservative about them. But most audio amps and many guitar amps are rated at the highest power they’ll make just before they explode, because Watts sell.

Further, the energy in a signal increases with frequency. The adage is that the shorter the wavelength, the stronger the signal as determined mathematically by the area under the curve. So more energy is sucked out of the signal itself to generate higher order harmonics than if the amp’s distortion products are mostly lower order. Also, the rounder the waveform, the less there is of the spectral splash of sharp-cornered high frequency distortion that it produces. Classic tube clipping generates almost all low order harmonics because the round wave peaks are compressed rather than amputated (which is the classic form of clipping in SS amps). Almost all of the rated output power from a well made, conservatively rated amp is amplifying the signal going into it. But amps rated at higher distortion levels are wasting more power driving distortions they generate themselves. So they won’t go as loud with clean jazz tones, even though they get louder as they distort more.

There’s a lot more to it than just the above. Look closely at any amp’s specs before buying. If nothing but “power” is provided in the manual or online, call or email the manufacturer.

[Gitterbug]

David, this Forum should be, and no doubt is, grateful for the insight you share. Over the years I have tinkered with cabs, I have been puzzled by the discrepancies between stated amp output and perceived loudness. A couple of extremes: Mooer Baby Bomb 30W pedal amp - very loud. Raezer's Edge Luna 200R (200W) - pretty docile for the wattage. Speaking of the latter, I would really appreciate someone with the resources to review the amps utilizing the IcePower power unit-power amp module against other makes with similar wattage.

On THD: trying to understand it takes me to Wikipedia and mathematical formulae that sweep over my dandruff, to quote a Finnish expression. But I think there's different qualities of it. A new amp (no names) I've recently tried brims over with it on purpose, to please the rock crowd. Me no likes.The SBUS, by contrast, does start to break with Gain above 10 o'clock, but in a pleasant way. For most of my gigs, the SBUS and a Metro 6.5GP are enough. If not, then a TOOB 10S or 12S bring in the additional 6 dB. It that's not enough, it's not jazz and I'm not there.

The summary: Use your ears. What you hear is what you get.

[st.bede]

Besides the El Pesc, I like (and use) the Combs JJ-150 with my solid state amp. [When using my tube amps, I don't need that type of pedal!]

[and you mean Vintage 47 amps, right?]

yes… 47… whoops

[EastwoodMike]

Thanks again for your valued insights and feedback.
One thing that irks me is how marketing stole and misused the use of output wattage at the point that you can’t compare two amp brands based on wattage as your sole metric. Tube amps are a slightly different story but even their transformer size will affect the outcome of two otherwise identical circuits.
One thing seems to be coming to light to me though- Quilters wattage ratings on their current class D line up are (no surprise) inconsistent with other similar technologies.
example: output is higher on the SBUS into an 8 ohm load but lower into 4 or 16 ohm.
typically in these class D units 4 ohms provides you with maximum output capacity.
An online interview with Pat Quilter highlighted the SS amplification methodology between the Microblock and the Superblock was different. That somehow may explain the differences in reported wattages and also your perceived volumes?
It also seems (but I don’t have means to prove) that the 25w on the SBUS is not representative of SS wattage of past but is trying to gain equivalence to Tube wattage output. Just as a certain other popular archtop centric amp brand packs a 300w ice module into their amp but only claims 120w output, Quilter is probably doing something similar. This shouldn’t surprise us though. Tube amps for decades have been quoting their clean wattage despite providing much more under harmonic distortion.
In any case I would welcome a 50W (aviator cub power module?) SBUS if only for the clean headroom capacity.
I also wish that the effects loop was POST onboard reverb. That would have taken this amp up a level of versatility again. My original intent on this board was to have a line switcher as first pedal and be able to switch between the Fender tones & spring reverb or the Octal tones and chess reverb. I got close.
oh well.