-
I have never stretched, and never felt the worse for it.
-
06-17-2023 10:17 PM
-
The trend of all current jazz guitarists to have to use ultra high definition mega chirpy super acoustic detail epicly zingy hi fi roundwound hella focused vintage mini humbucker tone peeves me way more. :P I like flatwounds but would never be able to play them exclusively, so I decided to have guitars with both.
Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
-
That is so incredibly specific it's self-contradictory. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
For the record I don't think flatwounds are lame. They're fine on other peoples guitars. Sometimes. I.e. when it's the 50s.
-
Yes, it's so contradictory that every single jazz guitarist these days uses that tone. Again, I'd never be able to put flats on all my guitars, but it's nice to have em on 1 or 2. Everything doesn't have to be chirp chirp.
-
Thread is getting good now.....
I actually like both but choose flats because they are superior for chording and rhythm work. The response is more balanced than rounds. It's just harder to get clear low note solo lines to come off with a humbucker equipped guitar. No sproing with flats..
Labellas have the purple so they are the only string worth having I don't care if it's 1950 or tomorrow.
-
I actually made a jazz strat loaded pickguard with only neck and middle hums. The middle worked well for a jazz sound with more attack with flats.
-
I dunno. I had a gig yesterday playing Lou Donaldson and other Blue Notey stuff. To me the sound for that has to be flatwounds, so I brought my ES175 played loud with a good drummer and bass player and of course it sounded great. But playing that set up and enjoying it, it feels like I’m not calling the shots. The guitar tells me what to play and I’m just along for the ride. It tells me - ‘for this gig, you will be low rent early George Benson*.’ So that told me.
I don’t always want to do that… I think flats have that effect, esp on a guitar with little sustain like me old 175. My album is me trying to get the sounds I want out of that guitar and failing haha. I now realise when it comes to that guitar and that set up it’s really not about what I want.
It’s a vibe.
Sometimes I want something a bit more transparent. Rounds do that, but on the 175 it feels like I’m going against the nature of the instrument. Something like my tele is agnostic on the issue. Also it’s nice to have a guitar when I can push the strings around a bit.
*yes I do realise George played an L5 at that point
-
im not sure if I recognise this trend. Can you be more specific about players? Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
-
PG? I don't know enough current guitarists to be able to substantiate that. It's just something I think I've noticed. I absolutely notice that noone uses dark tone like Pat anymore tho.
-
I have noticed a tendency for younger players to go for a PG type of tone, which I would categorise more as no reverb, cranked mids actually. Quite ‘clanky’ for want of a better word. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
It has some similarity with some of the older players tones to my ears and I wouldn’t categorise it as terribly bright. PG plays guitars with a set humbucker or Charlie christian pickup through a variety of amps including a classic Gibson EH150. Pretty classic set up.
I did play his guitar once but I can’t remember if it was flats or rounds… rounds I think? Charlie Christian played rounds otoh as flats weren’t a thing until the 50s.
If you hear a difference in tone between PG and the 50s guys it maybe more of a touch thing. The gear is not much different.
There are some on my scene who seem to be angling more towards a Peter Bernstein type of tone which I would categorise as brighter. PB himself uses a floating Gibson humbucker, full size, through black panel fenders. Round wound strings iirc. I would definitely describe his sound as quite bright (but full.)
And then there’s players that do have more of a dark, reverby sound. Gilad Heckselman springs to mind. Tom Ollendorff in the UK.
Half of the other young players seem to be moving more towards the fusion/Snarky thing with some Kurt influence. Everyone seems to like EHX Pogs atm, octave sounds and rolling off the onset of the notes for a more synth sound. (Gilad does this too.) legato seems to be fashionable at the moment too, see Pedro Martins
-
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I guess at least you’re on trend for this thread of totally arbitrary nonsensical hot takes.
-
When you say "everyone" I feel like you are talking about a very small handful of musicians and not audiences at large? If I was watching a great jazz group and dude kicks on his synth for a couple numbers I'm going to ask for my check and leave. Octave stuff I can handle to some degree but I'm jealous cause I could never get those pedals to work good for me. The only effects I really care for any more are the stuff that was integrated into the golden age of amps, tremolo and reverb. To me an electric guitar sounds the most amazing plugged straight into a good amp without a bunch of adulteration. I know it's not a popular opinion right now but I am a contrarian by nature so there is that. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Noone uses dark tone anymore. That's extremely far from nonsensical. Even you were trying to make a point that flats are irrelevant. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
-
Have to admit I’m with DawgBone on the basics. Keep in mind I’m one of those horrible Baby Boomer old farts. The only two “special effects” that I desire and used back in the late 60’s, was reverb and tremolo.
My son knew I was thinking about buying an amp. So he brought over a new amp he had just bought from Guitar Center. It took a lot of “knob twisting” to get a basic sound from his amp. I jokingly called it a “sounds effect machine”, which is probably not a welcome view here but he was OK with my sarcasim.
l finally found and bought an older Gibson GA-20 amp made in the same era as my 1952 L-5C. It lacks tremolo and reverb but maybe a couple pedals down the road someday.
Tom
-
Me at a gig when an amp has more than a single tone control or basic 3 band EQ and I'm trying to dial it in.... Originally Posted by TAA
Have to admit I’m with DawgBone on the basics. Keep in mind I’m one of those horrible Baby Boomer old farts. The only two “special effects” that I desire and used back in the late 60’s, was reverb and tremolo.
My son knew I was thinking about buying an amp. So he brought over a new amp he had just bought from Guitar Center. It took a lot of “knob twisting” to get a basic sound from his amp. I jokingly called it a “sounds effect machine”, which is probably not a welcome view here but he was OK with my sarcasim.
l finally found and bought an older Gibson GA-20 amp made in the same era as my 1952 L-5C. It lacks tremolo and reverb but maybe a couple pedals down the road someday.
Tom
-
Originally Posted by TAA
Have to admit I’m with DawgBone on the basics. Keep in mind I’m one of those horrible Baby Boomer old farts. The only two “special effects” that I desire and used back in the late 60’s, was reverb and tremolo.
My son knew I was thinking about buying an amp. So he brought over a new amp he had just bought from Guitar Center. It took a lot of “knob twisting” to get a basic sound from his amp. I jokingly called it a “sounds effect machine”, which is probably not a welcome view here but he was OK with my sarcasim.
l finally found and bought an older Gibson GA-20 amp made in the same era as my 1952 L-5C. It lacks tremolo and reverb but maybe a couple pedals down the road someday.
Tom
that’s a nice L5. I’d be tempted to accidentally drop the line 6 down the stairs.
for the record I’m with the old farts on tone and strings. But not the boomers on their polytones, I mean the proper geezers. The dudes that played roundwounds because flats didn’t exist yet.
-
LOL! Post of the day! Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
-
We have common ground here. Originally Posted by DawgBone
-
For electric guitars, I like rounds on a solid body (Pure nickel, round core) and flats on an electric archtop (pure nickel, round core). On an acoustic guitar I like silver, round core, roundwound strings on a Gypsy guitar, nylon strings on a classical (does anyone still use gut strings on those today?) and 80/20 roundwound strings on my acoustic archtops (I have not decided about round core vs. hex core on those guitars yet).
My choices are all about getting the tone that I want to hear. My choices about guitars and amps are also about that. Mostly, I seek the tone that I heard from seeing (or hearing on recordings) my guitar heroes. Those cats gave me a lantern and showed me the path, particularly Joe Pass and Wes Montgomery (for jazz guitar).
If I am stuck in the 50's with my flatwound equipped electric archtops, so be it. I am happy with the sound and feel and that is all that matters.
Regarding effects, I like a touch of reverb. My SS amps all have that on board. My tube amp does not, so I have a reverb pedal for use with that amp. I do have a chorus pedal and a couple of dirt pedals for use on a fusion, blues or rock gig, if ever another gig of that sort shows up (unlikely at this point in my career as a gigging pro). While I respect the sound that a pedal user like Bill Frisell gets, my favorite jazz guitar sound was the sound that Joe Pass and Wes Montgomery got, namely an electric archtop into a SS amp with flatwound strings.
-
Reverb, clean amp with intuitive EQ (just a tone knob is ideal). That's all you need.
The other stuff is cosmetics. Some players, like some people, rely too much on cosmetics. I recently heard a jazz-college student playing monk's dream; the player was into emulating the super dark, washy g___d h_______n tone (don't ask me why, I obviously don't understand people not my own age). Long story short: rhythm, dynamics, accuracy, articulation/punctuation all were lost on him. Even if he managed to play the hits as the right time and in sync with the drummer, you'd never know because the attack was washed out and the note onset of the delay trails kept going well into the next bar. "... But what a rich and spacious delay." :eyeroll:
I actually don't care if it's flats or round, different players get different sounds out of either.
-
Ahem - I mean - lot of the young players on the jazz scene seem to be going for this sound which should have been reasonably clear from the context I think? Originally Posted by DawgBone
Im not into it so much. Otoh I’m an old fart so I don’t have to be into the latest thing.
-
Yeah, I like my guitar music to sound like a guitar. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
I just put some TI flats on a ply archtop. Never touched them before. I think I dig. They suit the instrument. Sure is a f'in expensive start-up though!
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos