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My favorite tone is that of one of my archtop guitars (I have some good ones) running through my JazzAmp, with just a little reverb. The trio I am performing with does about 25% "pop" tunes (mainly Stevie Wonder compositions) with the rest being standards. I would like to sound a little more "contemporary" on the pop stuff. I figured getting a multi-effects pedal would be the most cost-effective way to get some new sounds, so I got a Boss GT-1. I was hoping to avoid having a pedal board and all those blasted 9V batteries. Reprogramming the thing is moderately painful and I can't yet do it without having the manual open. I am not a knob twister and don't have much patience- I like to just plug in and go. The Boss has an inline tuner and a volume pedal which are handy, but I feel like my basic good, warm tone gets lost, even when I am using just a few effects, like reverb, compression and a little chorus.
Is this the nature of multi-effect pedals? Would I be better off with a good sustain/ compression pedal and a good chorus? Is there some way to ease into the realm of pedals, gently?
Thanks!
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05-15-2023 04:46 PM
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I don't have broad experience with pedals, but I've used the ME50, ME70 and ME80.
All great.
I think they all appeal to the pedal phobe. Unlike the GT-1 (which I tried and returned), all sounds are controlled with knobs. It's like individual pedals in that way -- except -- you can save a patch. You twist the knobs until you get a sound you like and you can save it in two or three clicks. The four foot switches each select one of your patches. So, if you use 4 sounds, they're all right there in front of you.
If you want, you don't have to use patches at all. There's a mode for that, which you select with one dedicated switch. Then, it's you and the turning of knobs. Just like having individual boxes.
The GT-1 required figuring out the organizational paradigm. It allows for a lot of parameter tweaking -- more than the ME series. I figured that out, and got it working with my computer for creating patches. But, on the bandstand I kept having problems. The volume pedal was too small and was hard to operate precisely. I kept hitting switches by accident and ending up with screaming ring modulator or something else horrible in the middle of a quiet tune. It's possible to program the thing so that you can prevent switching errors, or so I think, but it's complicated.
And, my four sounds were no longer selectable with individual switches. Instead, they had numbers in memory and I'd have to press a switch repeatedly to get to the one I wanted. Not a no brainer while trying to read a difficult chart.
I didn't notice any significant variation in the actual sounds I used. All these units sound okay to me.
The ME70 may be the hidden gem. It's discontinued but available used. They're build like tanks, so I wouldn't be afraid to buy used. The big difference is that the ME70 is smaller than the ME80 by about the width of the expression (volume) pedal. The ME70 fits in a regular briefcase, which the ME80 does not. I'm not sure about the ME50 because I sold mine. I recall it as a little lighter maybe, but I'm not sure about width or sounds, although I thought it sounded fine at the time. I currently use both and I don't hear any difference in the sounds I use. I also don't find the ME80 signifcantly easier to use, even though it has 4 more footswitches.
My suggestion: buy an ME70 used with a return privilege (GC offers this) and see what you think. I bet you'll be happy with it.
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Multi-effects/amp modelers all have a pretty steep learning curve. You may well do better with some pedals if you don't want to go through the learning process. (And you wouldn't be alone. Those devices are definitely not for everyone). One thing you can do if you are considering pedals is to look into a Tonetone One Spot adapter. It's a single power adapter with a daisy chain cable that allows you to power multiple pedals on a single outlet. They're not expensive and you'd never have to deal with batteries again.
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I owned a small company for a while and made guitar effects, so I'm pretty familiar with them overall. Like you, I prefer an archtop into an amp with nothing in between. I also have a strong background in studio recording and front of the house sound. Digital modelers are the way to go right now in my opinion.
I would do something like this, but I think having two guitars is going to be the key:
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It's about $700 but the amps, cabs, and all effects are built in and sound great. I would build a standard archtop rig with an amp and light reverb like we like inside the modeler. Then I'd probably build a few more patches in there for the pop stuff and use a solid body tele or strat. Honestly, there are really no compromises in this set up. You have full archtop jazz rig, and as many full solid body pop ones as you want.
If you choose to use the archtop for everything, it'll be a compromise on the pop tunes. But, I think digital modelers are the way to go regardless. $700 is more than the multi-effects units but I also think it gives more flexibility and you don't have to compromise on any aspect of the rig.
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I've not played the Boss GT-1, but most cheaper mutli-effects dull the highs and end up killing what we love about a real amp, in general they suck and what you are experiencing is very normal. I was skeptical of digital amps and effects for a long time because of this. In the 90s I had to record into an old POD kidney bean (if you know you know) onto ADAT and absolutely hated it. In the early 2000s I recorded into protools with some built in amp modeler and it was ok as long as the guitars were wildly distorted. About 10 years ago I did some recordings with all digital amps and effects and thought, we are almost there. Now there are so many great amp modelers that I will reluctantly, and begrudgingly say, digital amps and digital recordings are amazing...I now have a number of tube amps that haven't been turned on in years.
Originally Posted by JazzDaddyD
My current "jazz" rig is an archtop into a Strymon Iridium (Deluxe Reverb settings), no amp, no pedals, nothing but the amp modeler and guitar.
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This is true. They try to make the knobs and layout serve several functions, and in the end they become hard to use. I will say, the newer all in one units are much more intuitive. And this one is down right easy to use (no effects so it's simpler and likely won't work for the OP, basically just an amp in a digital format): Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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If you're looking for a different color with more sustain on rock-ish solos, I'd go with an overdrive of some sort rather than a compressor. Something like a Fulltone OCD (or a cheaper clone, of which there are many) will preserve your basic tone and dynamics while allowing you to add dirt and sustain. I'd also go with a delay rather than chorus, and keep the delay settings relatively tame (e.g., a little slap-back, or a longer delay than that with mixed low without too many repetitions). Also, maybe give us some specific songs you're thinking of. Odds are, someone here will know what effects were actually used, which could be helpful as a guide for what to try. Originally Posted by JazzDaddyD
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I really dislike pedals. But I'd rather twist a few physical knobs on a small pedal board than deal with a multi effects interface any day.
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Hi, Originally Posted by JazzDaddyD
The GT-1, once you get rid of the more radical things, is a great multi-effect pedal. It can be powered by AC adapter and/or 9v battery. Best approach: create one clean patch. Then add what you want to it, and “save as” a different patch. The clean patch will not diminish your sound at all, and then you can blend to taste. It’s worth the time/effort to learn.
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I still use the old Boss ME8 from around 1996. No amp models or digital interface (if that's what it's called). It doesn't have knobs but very quick and easy to vary parameters with buttons. Great analogue ods and distortions. I've picked one up for £45 but my original was over £300 in the 90s. I also have a GT5 which cost me £75. The ME8 is my choice for ease of use.
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When I first got the ME50 I set up a rig to A/B ME50 vs Bypass. With the touch of a button I could switch between the ME50 and straight to the amp. I set up the ME50 with all FX off and only the volume pedal doing anything.
The sound was not quite identical. I had no preference between them. I am at a loss to describe the difference, other than I didn't think it was consequential.
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I am just going to say yes to the OP’s questions.
I would humble suggest just getting a few used analog pedals, and giving them a try.
(In a pedal, verb has to be digital. If the Henriksen verb is working ok for you, then most digital verb pedals should be a little or big step up. I used the verb on my Jazz Amp all the time. It works. If I want something better, I grab a pedal).
Typical MXR, and EHX are pretty cheap used. If you get then from GC, and they do not work you can easily return them. You have to check for included wall warts with a lot of EHX pedals. (In the old days you could just drive to radio shack and buy for a decent price a wall wart but now you have to order on line).
If you do not like a pedal it is easy to sell at a little loss.
If I was only using a few pedals, I would run my old big box EHXs, and old big box Pigtronixs. A few of those can sound incredible and are easy to dial in.
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You may be overthinking this a bit. Even if your trio is you, a keyboard, and a bass, you probably won’t be playing searing leads on pop tunes. You may do well to just brighten up your archtop a bit and add a simple Dumble-style pedal like a Rockett Touch, a Rowen Dumbler, etc for a Carlton / Ford / Ritenour tone and sound.
I wired the HB in one of my archtops with a coil split switch. The SC sound is vastly different from the HB and really shines through my Dumbler or my Wampler Tumnus. It’s all I need for pop tunes in my trio of guitar, bass & drums. It doesn’t muddy up chord melody or comping, and it makes lead lines really sparkle.
I have a Zoom MS60 B multieffects pedal. It’s very good - but even used very sparingly, the chorus, delays, etc feel and sound a little too cheesy for me after a few tunes. The MS50G and 60B are excellent and inexpensive multi-effects well worth considering. But a simple, cheap Dumbler may well give you what you want. And if you can do it easily with your current pickup, split the coils.
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Using "just a few effects" is how most players junk up and complicate their tone. Compression is mostly a waste of time especially if you are using a tube amp already or you need the heavy compression country or funk rhythm guitar sound. Reverb always negatively affects tone in a live setting IME. You are live, there is reverb in the club already. Add reverb to that and you wash out your tone to one degree or another. It's extra nice when no one can tell what you are actually playing. Chorus to me is kind of like autotune for guitar, of course you can kiss your basic good warm tone goodbye with chorus. Yes, effects do have their place. I have a decent OD box for gigs and a reverb for fun time at home. That's it. Originally Posted by JazzDaddyD
I see guys say they play student model amps because they are easier to tote but they lug a square acre pedalboard to the show. Any cabling issues between 3-4-5 or more pedals at a gig makes a fun last minute project to sort out when you are trying to entertain people so pedals also offer that added advantage. Finding or getting power for pedals at the front of the stage is also like a treasure hunt which also can add to a pedal appreciator's enjoyment level. When you finally score an outlet up there it's like finding the pot o gold at the end of the rainbow. To top those benefits off, it's much more entertaining for the people watching you if you are staring at your feet and fiddling with knobs during the show. More knobs, more fiddling. When my new box gets here this tone will improve. Look, the guitarist was tap dancing during that solo!
You want to sound contemporary. If you are actively gigging you are by definition already contemporary. If you really want to have a complete tone revelation buy a bunch of sweet pedals and gig them for a while then just start leaving them at home and enjoy the amazing tone you've discovered.
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OP, I think for your mind frame (which is much like my own) and only needing effects for 24% of your gig, save yourself the irritation and just get a couple of stand alone pedals. Easy and best sounding solution.
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DawgBone, I agree with you over all. (Especially about the verb). I do believe that using carefully selected pedals, with the right guitar and amp, that a person knows well, can avoid messing up the tone. Sometimes the tone is even better.
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As one who has performed everything barefoot* for Originally Posted by JazzDaddyD
the last few decades I appreciate your situation. My
solution was switching the pickup selector off of the
neck jazz pickup to another combination. You might
find that sounds more contemporary enough to use.
You might adjust the pickup height unusually to get
further distinguished but desirable usable pop tone.
* playing straight into the amp - only the guitar cord
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You ever seen Tash Sultana? She plays barefoot—literally—but has a pedalboard that looks like an F16 cockpit. Originally Posted by pauln
I would never play barefoot. Who knows what bacteria lurk on those stages? And splinters…
(She sets out a carpet, as do most pros these days who actually play without shoes.)
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Get a couple pedals and a strymon ojai psu. Mount on a small pedalboard or put in one of those pedalcases with velcro. Done.
I played a lot funk, soul and Stevie Wonder in a previous band, with a strat but also a Heritage 575 with Benedetto B6 pups. The 575 does really well for this stuff.
The key pedals for this type of music are in order of priority (1) a wah, I use Hotone soul press 2 which can be switched to a volume/expression pedal (2) a dark analog delay with taptempo that sits well in the mix, I use Mxr Carbon Copy Deluxe (3) a low/medium gain drive that sounds good on many amps. I use Browne Protein. Two great industry standard sounds and very few dials. With both sides stacked it sounds like any Stevie Wonder distorted guitar type song.
Never felt a chorus was necessary but recently got a Source Audio chorus pedal. Thing with these is that all their chorus, phaser or flanger sounds are available to download to this pedal and tweak from an app. Three preset slots i.e. three base sounds available in the pedal at one time. I have a leslie type vibe sound for tremolo songs, a phaser type effect for Wahwah Watson funk, and a vintage chorus/flange sound for pretty chords.
Tried lots of compressors but the 575 never needs one. The strat does well with a Wampler Ego for a Cory Wong funk type sound.Last edited by frankhond; 05-24-2023 at 03:25 AM.
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