Live sound trial

[Peter C]

These are fragments of a couple of original tunes that I'm preparing for a solo (looper-assisted) performance and I'd be pleased to receive feedback regarding the sound of the setup. The humbucker is going into the normal input of a Roland Cube GX amp, JC clean setting, guitar with the tone rolled off quite a bit and a Boss octave pedal and delay in the chain when needed. The piezo pickup (stick-on type) is going through a DI box, a volume pedal and the preamp of a Micro Cube with some reverb and chorus added, then into the aux. input of the GX.

I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, alternating between the combined tone of the HB and the piezo, then just the HB, using the volume controls on the guitar and the pedal. Do you think it works?

[Peter C]

Ok, so I've made it just one video to simplify things. As the humbucker > JC clean setting with the tone rolled off is pretty much my default electric sound with the archtop, with regard to the piezo sound:

1. It contrasts well with the rolled-off HB
2. It sounds too tinny and I need to invest in a K & K system
3. Forget the whole thing
4. Other (which means you have to write something)

It would be helpful to get feedback from people who spend a lot of time listening to and debating guitar sounds

[kris]

I do not like your piezo sound..is this arch-top with piezo supposed to simulate acoustic sound?
The humbucker sounds very good.I wouldn't mess with piezo, unless it was some professional bridge/tune-o-matic/.
...a long time ago I had a Godin LGXsa guitar with a very good RMC piezo and it performed quite well.
Nice playing
Best
Kris

[Peter C]

Thanks Kris, that's exactly what I was looking for. A lot of my tunes require fingerpicked passages and the humbucker was not yielding the right tone for this, whatever tone shaping I used. I was contemplating a pickup change to something like a Filtertron to get more brightness when needed, but decided to try an old contact piezo pickup I had through a DI box and combining the two sounds. I'm not going for a bona fide acoustic sound at all, but this setup is affording some needed brightness. The combined sound doesn't bother me too much, but it's great to know what other trained ears are hearing.

[John A.]

For a causal gig it’s fine. Not spectacular, but in a room with talking, clinking glasses, and room reverb whatever deficiencies are there will fade if you’re playing well.


That said, It sounds to me like you’re recording with the phone which is accentuating the tinny acoustic sound of the guitar and attenuating the amped sound. I don’t like that sound for myself, but that’s me. If that is what you’re doing, to get a better sense of how it sounds, i think it would be helpful to hear it recorded with a device that doesn’t do automatic level control or process the sound so as to optimize a for speaking voice (the problem with phones), such as an interface that plugs into phone and allows levels to be set manually, or a real mic into a DAW.

If you’re actually recording through a more legit recording path, than to my tastes it’s not a great sound. I’d maybe try the piezo through the acoustic guitar or mic input and the humbucker into the Vox model (which I greatly prefer to the JC model).

[Peter C]

Those are valid points, John. It was indeed recorded with the phone mic, and it sounded quite a bit nicer in my lounge. I'll maybe look into an interface for online posting, but I'm primarily concerned with live playing. Ideally, I'd have a 2 or even 3 amp setup for this but the last roadie I had lived in the UK, last century ...

I'm running the piezo through the acoustic sim. I tried the mic channel and no go, but I'll give the Brit Combo a shot.

Your feedback is much appreciated!

[omphalopsychos]

I'm impressed by your ability to do all this switching while playing. I was wondering what that spot on your guitar was until you revealed it was your pick. Very clever.

I think it sounds good, and any harshness people are talking about will be less apparent playing live. Do you apply any equalization to the piezo? My only recommendation here is to try to scoop out the mids as much as possible. With the piezo, you're only trying to get an acoustic transient blended in with your acoustic signal. That transient will be in frequencies above 5 khz. Piezo's all have a really unpleasant nasal midrange, so I'd try to eliminate that as much as possible.

I experimented with a setup like this for a bit because I personally like the "cold, thin" snap of the acoustic guitar blended in with the electric tone to get more bite. I ultimately got an acoustic archtop with a floater and it is perfect for this kind of stuff. I don't need to amplify the body of the guitar at all. It's just loud enough to cut through.

[grahambop]

For a causal gig it’s fine.

Is that one with unforeseen consequences?

[Peter C]

Hi omphalopsychos, I'm impressed with my tap dancing skills, honed during numerous lockdowns. My aim is to just mix in just a smidgen of (pseudo-) acoustic air and I'm going to follow your suggestion to remove mids.

I like the sound of the DeArmond Rhythm Chief, and even looked at how I could possibly install one in parallel behind the HB...but we'll see.

Thanks for your input!

[rpjazzguitar]

Nice playing.

Since you asked, I'll be very picky in what follows.

The comping tone sounds good to me except for what I'll call a tinny overlay, for want of a better term. Is that the piezo? Every now and then there's something high and harsh.

The lead tone will work, but it doesn't strike me as soft, round and smooth. Sounds like something is processed (maybe overdriven?) in there, making it more like a rock tone than a traditional jazz tone. Nothing wrong with that, but the tune is a samba and it's just a bit incongruous.

I'd be curious to hear it without the piezo and with the guitar played more softly -- meaning softer picking and no overdrive, or whatever is producing that sound.

[deacon Mark]

I too am not a fan of the piezo sound and have never heard anyone use it with any great deal of good sound. Also not a criticism but I never really like anything in the mix of playing. Just the guitar and amp and no pedals, delays, and other stuff. My reasoning is what I like to listen to the most. Straight up guitar and a great players touch is so important. Listen to Chris Whiteman no frills but it is so listenable. The same thing with just listen to Wes play a tune solo chord melody. What you have going is some good energy and really nothing wrong with it at all. I would like to hear it back with just the HB and amp.

[Alter]

I think it sounds fine enough so that it will easily work live. I personally keep things very simple when playing live with a looper. If it's jazz, it's one guitar, one looper, one amp. If I play stereo I pan the looped and direct guitar a bit for contrast.

My point is, playing live with a looper is more complicated than without, so you want to avoid distractions and complicated setups, unless absolutely necessary. Small differences and nuances in sound color will be lost live, there will be people, noise, mistakes you'll need to react to. It's easy to get overwhelmed by gear, or end up stressing over it instead of focusing on the music and on you and the audience enjoying the gig.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah I find my live set ups tend to get simpler over time tbh

[Peter C]

Maybe I'll do a DAW version without video as my production skills are far behind my pedal-stomping ability

The harsh sound could mostly be due to the phenomenon described above by John. The lead tone is just guitar into the amp, so maybe the tone is more down to my rather aggressive attack here? I have no jazz schooling, but do pick more gently on other tunes....

I enjoy listening to Chris Whiteman but most of my stuff was actually conceived for a small ensemble, so not really chord-melody friendly Hmm, now that would be a challenge..

Yeah Alter, point taken and understood. Matt Otten does some great stuff without varying his tone. My requirement is for a decent tone for fingerpicking.