Lavalier Mic?

[swingtoneman]

Anybody use a Lavalier mic on acoustic guitar? If so your experiences using one? A load to choose from out there. I possibly want to use one if suitable for gigs--not recording. A few questions for a novice on the Lavalier mic:

a) Wireless or cable? If wireless which make of transmitter do you use?
b) The best place to mount the mic-- at the bottom of the sound hole?
c) Is a Lavalier mic as good as a quality normal mic on a stand?
d) Do Lavalier mics have the same feedback issues as a mic on a stand?

Look forward to your replies.

[Doctor Jeff]

I am not an expert on this by any means, but I have played around and researched it a bit.

If you have a sound hole guitar like a flattop, a typical magnetic pickup like a Markley will work well, especially paired with an acoustic amp. Seems to me a lot of the pros go this route, though of course they have access to some of the best techs and technology out there. They generally have pretty sophisticated preamp setups like Fishman. Often they blend the magnetic with an undersaddle piezo.

For an archtop, I ended up with a DeArmond RC1000 reissue. It’s a good compromise between acoustic sound and electric. I tried a Barcus Berry contact pickup, but it was too harsh. A lot of people swear by the underbridge pickups though.

I’d be interested to hear what people say about mics, but unless it’s incorporated into the guitar it seems like a challenge to get the sound you want from it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I bought a Hotec wireless mic system when we started gigging again in summer 2021. I bought it for the boom mic, which I wore between a mask and a face shield. But it came with a pair of lavalier mics that inspired me to try amplifying my National tricone. The foam shields on them are a perfect fit both pushed partway into the holes in the top and wedged under the bridge cover - so I use one in each position.

They have clips, so I also made a thin sheet aluminum finger held on by the end pin and arching over the tailpiece. Clipping a mic to the free end does a good job of capturing my archtops’ sounds. You have to use thick enough metal sheet to minimize flexing. I haven’t tried it yet, but I think you could also get a thin, flexible gooseneck mic stalk, secure a 1/4” plug to one end and a mic capsule like mine to the other, and stick it into the output jack on an archtop with onboard pickup. This would be easier to use on gigs than the flat finger because you have to loosen the end pin and remove the sheet metal before putting the guitar in its case or bag. I’d zip-tie the mic cable to the stalk.

I clip the wireless transmitter to the free end of the strap that hangs below the end pin. The sound quality is actually so good it surprised me. But as with any mic, feedback can be a problem.

[gitman]

I use a - relatively- cheap mic like this : Myers Pickups —Myers Instrument Pickups and Instrument Microphones Feather

with my resonator guitar and get very good results when playing that guitar in my Old Time Jazz group. It’s either plugged into my Bud (or a Roland „Street“ battery amp) or straight into a mixing board. Some experimenting with mic placement is essential in any case.

[Webby]

I think you'll find this Thread helpful.
My main gig is playing acoustic Swing-Rhythm. Most of the time I go unamplified, but whenever I have to I use a (relatively cheap) Lavalier by the Thomann house-brand t.bone. That one seems to be more or less a DPA-clone. I never ran into trouble with mine.
Concerning positioning the general consensus seems to be that the sweet-spot is somewhere between the F-hole and the bridge. When you point the mic right in fornt of the f-hole your signal tends to become too boomy.

I don't see any disadvantages over using a mic on a stand, but really like the fact, that the mic will always be at a consistent distance from the sound source, which I can't guarantee when working with a mic-stand.

Paul

[gitman]

I think you'll find this Thread helpful.
My main gig is playing acoustic Swing-Rhythm. Most of the time I go unamplified, but whenever I have to I use a (relatively cheap) Lavalier by the Thomann house-brand t.bone. That one seems to be more or less a DPA-clone. I never ran into trouble with mine.
Concerning positioning the general consensus seems to be that the sweet-spot is somewhere between the F-hole and the bridge. When you point the mic right in fornt of the f-hole your signal tends to become too boomy.

I don't see any disadvantages over using a mic on a stand, but really like the fact, that the mic will always be at a consistent distance from the sound source, which I can't guarantee when working with a mic-stand.

Paul

That is my only issue with using a fixed-distance microphone : I do not have instant control over the mic-volume by simply moving away from it like a horn player or vocalist does. With my set-up I need to clip the small pre-amp module onto my strap and pre-select the maximum volume level for soloing so when comping I have to reach around with my right (strumming) hand, find the little knob on that module and hope to turn it down to the sweet spot in one go - thereby loosing a couple of beats behind the next soloist. The saying is true : often times you can't have the cake and eat it, too .....

[Webby]

That is my only issue with using a fixed-distance microphone : I do not have instant control over the mic-volume by simply moving away from it like a horn player or vocalist does. With my set-up I need to clip the small pre-amp module onto my strap and pre-select the maximum volume level for soloing so when comping I have to reach around with my right (strumming) hand, find the little knob on that module and hope to turn it down to the sweet spot in one go - thereby loosing a couple of beats behind the next soloist. The saying is true : often times you can't have the cake and eat it, too .....

I usually don't take solos with my acoustic (action is set up way too high to do that comfortably), but I think if I were to, I'd just use two channels for different volume levels and use an A-B-switch between them.
I guess that would be even simpler, then changing the distance to the mic.


Paul

[campusfive]

I think a clip-on lavalier mic (especially the gooseneck'd variety) is the best way to amplify an acoustic archtop while preserving it's "acoustic" (i.e. as opposed to "electric") character. I've been doing it since 2014.

The threads linked above have a lot of info, and years of comments back and forth.

A couple things:
The geometry of keeping your mic from picking up monitors is essential to avoiding feedback (just like ANY mic). But since a guitar-mounted mic can move, you just have to account for that. Also, since there's no "volume knob" on any of them, I've found having a mute pedal to be an essential part of the system, because otherwise you'd have to rely on FOH to turn it off so you can put the guitar down.

I would highly recommend that, whichever mic you end up with, you avoid the f-holes because it overemphasizes the low end and that's exactly one of the main causes of feedback. If the mic struggles to get enough signal that you'd HAVE to use the f-holes, it's probably not the right mic or setup.

[gitman]

I usually don't take solos with my acoustic (action is set up way too high to do that comfortably), but I think if I were to, I'd just use two channels for different volume levels and use an A-B-switch between them.
I guess that would be even simpler, then changing the distance to the mic.


Paul

The proof is in the pudding - PLUS I'd need a second channel on my amp which is not always possible.
And then I watch the many new Bluegrass groups who perform all standing around a single central microphone and I can actually hear
every instrument (even the bass ! ). Makes you think ....

[SOLR]

Anybody use a Lavalier mic on acoustic guitar? If so your experiences using one? A load to choose from out there. I possibly want to use one if suitable for gigs--not recording. A few questions for a novice on the Lavalier mic:

a) Wireless or cable? If wireless which make of transmitter do you use?
b) The best place to mount the mic-- at the bottom of the sound hole?
c) Is a Lavalier mic as good as a quality normal mic on a stand?
d) Do Lavalier mics have the same feedback issues as a mic on a stand?

Look forward to your replies.

Here's a thread on the subject with decent pics and info Any advice on how to permanently mount an Audio-Technica Pro 70 — DjangoBooks Forum

Audio-Technica PRO 70 Cardioid Condenser Lavaliere / Instrument Microphone - DjangoBooks.com

a)The better players (Bireli Lagrene , Joscho Stephan etc..) are cabled much of the time... but if you go wireless, Sennheiser , Shure and audio technica make pro level wireless kits...
b)best place depends on guitar , set up in club or venue, is there a band etc...
c) Yes some lavs are really quite good ....
d) yes they feed back too,..it depends and there are many variables..

hope that helps

S

[swingtoneman]

Thanks everybody for your knowledge--much appreciated.