Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb - Blackface vs Blonde

[broturtel]

Hey there, JGF. Been a while, but I've been lurking.

So I am pretty set on getting a TMDR. I've had the chance to play the Blackface, and I love it. I'm satisfied. I'm set on it. Mostly. The trouble is I've been seeing and hearing demos (online) of the TMDR-Blonde. Firstly, it looks incredible. But I'm more concerned with sound. The reason I like the TMDR is because it has plenty of clean headroom for me to play jazz, but I also jam with some friends where we play stuff that's a bit dirty (not too much) and I like the natural breakup of the TMDR Blackface. I don't use pedals mostly because I like to keep my setup as simple as possible. The Boss Katana was nice but I really only used the reverb, tremolo, and crunch. All the other stuff was way way way too much for me. I like things simple or else I get side-tracked. Thus the TMDR is actually pretty perfect for me. Has everything I want and need in an amp.

Before I pull the plug, I was wondering if anyone has tried the Blonde version of this amp. It sounds a little warmer than the blackface. But how much headroom does it have because from what I hear it sounds like it has a bit less headroom than the blackface.

Additionally, I've been researching amps a LOT lately, and I don't understand everything as far as amps go, but what I did notice was that the two amps have different speakers. Apparently the Celestion Neo Creamback is a much better speaker. I've heard the Celestion speakers in general are great. I'm not a tone snob or a gear wizard, though. If something sounds good, it sounds good. Idc about the little parts in between. But from what I heard, I really like the sound of the blonde version just a tad bit more. I know I can get the firmware upgrade for the blackface to sound more like the blonde without the tone cap and the better reverb knob. But will it have the same warmth or does the speaker have anything to do with that. I've heard of people putting the creamback in the blackface as well, but if I'm honest I'm not going to do that. If I get the blackface, I will take it how it comes and same with the blonde. At least for now. I'm just looking for a good amp that sounds good, has both headroom and breakup, and has nice reverb.

One last thing about the speakers: I noticed the Jensen speaker was rated for 100w and the Celestion was rated for 60w. Does this have anything to do with the headroom/breakup? This part I was just curious about.

Sorry for so many questions on one post. I've been scouring the internet for days looking for some better information for comparison between the two. Any related information in comparing these two especially in terms of headroom will be greatly appreciated.

One more thing, I'm not interested in the twin just in case anyone was wondering. I don't need FOREVER headroom, as I said the TMDR blackface has enough for my needs. Just interested in whether the blonde's amount is diminished. However, any thoughts on a Princeton would be welcome. My friend has a Princeton and it sounds amazing. I've thought of waiting until the TMPR comes out, but I've heard they don't have a lot of headroom for jazz. Thanks again!

Edit: For background most of what I play is small gigs/medium gigs sometimes with drummer + bass + another guitar, jam sessions, and recording.

[Gitterbug]

Celestion Neo Creamback vs. Jensen Tornado? The way you describe your playing, my vote goes to the latter. It's just... more.

[broturtel]

Celestion Neo Creamback vs. Jensen Tornado? The way you describe your playing, my vote goes to the latter. It's just... more.

Thanks for the input!

[frankhond]

The blonde has a firmware mod that ”clips” the bright capacitor in the right channel. This is a popular mod on real deluxes for people that use pedals. The bright cap makes them sound fizzy.

Also, the speaker is half the sound and the one in the blonde breaks up earlier and reacts better to pedals.

The bright cap mod firmware can be downloaded to the blackface, but the speaker would be different.

Look for a guy called Zac on youtube, he writes for one of those guitar mags and is an experienced country cat. He has an episode talking extensively about the blonde deluxe and why it’s usable while the black isn’t (to him).

Chances are the blonde will work better for you if you plan to use pedals.

And if you like the sound of the blonde, I wouldn’t overthink it. Deluxes tend to be too loud for many gigs these days anyway, hard to imagine you would lack headroom on a jazz gig.

[tbeltrans]

I bought a black face TMDR used at a local Music Go Round at a decent price. Reading about the blonde and then listening (within the limitations of a youtube video), felt that it would be worthwhile to convert it to a blonde (speaker and firmware).

So I bought the speaker from Sweetwater and downloaded the firmware from Fender's site. Swapping out the speaker was easy enough and of course loading the firmware is simple too. I like the results because I prefer the warmer tone for chord melody playing.

Since I still have the original speaker and firmware, I could restore the amp to original, but since I don't care for the really bright high frequencies, I intend to keep it as is unless I were to sell it at some point.

So bear in mind that, whichever TMDR version you buy, you could always turn it into the one you didn't buy.

Tony

[pauln]

I don't use pedals mostly because I like to keep my setup as simple as possible. The Boss Katana was nice but I really only used the reverb, tremolo, and crunch. All the other stuff was way way way too much for me. I like things simple or else I get side-tracked....

...At least for now. I'm just looking for a good amp that sounds good, has both headroom and breakup, and has nice reverb.

Edit: For background most of what I play is small gigs/medium gigs sometimes with drummer + bass + another guitar, jam sessions, and recording.

You are looking for simplicity, but considering modeling amps (computers)?

[fep]

You are looking for simplicity, but considering modeling amps (computers)?

But that's the thing about the Fender Tonemasters, right? It operates, behaves, and sounds like the original deluxe reverb. But, without the weight, the price, and the maintenance complications. In that sense, to the user, it is more simple than the original.

[entresz]

I have the black tolex TM Deluxe with the Jensen speaker, I also did update the firmware to 'clip' the bright cap. The Jensen speaker is quite nice. Many of my guitars are on the brighter side (single coils) and I can easily get a nice warm tone. It's a good amp, and that is coming from a player who has for years avoided modelling amps.

[pauln]

But that's the thing about the Fender Tonemasters, right? It operates, behaves, and sounds like the original deluxe reverb. But, without the weight, the price, and the maintenance complications. In that sense, to the user, it is more simple than the original.

I was wondering because even if it were true ("It operates, behaves, and sounds like the original deluxe reverb."), which I don't know, Fender makes about a half dozen modeling amps in the 40-50W range that look like they are even lighter and about $750 less expensive. If deciding to go the modeling amp route, those should be auditioned, if only to exclude them if they don't sound good enough.

[broturtel]

I have the black tolex TM Deluxe with the Jensen speaker, I also did update the firmware to 'clip' the bright cap. The Jensen speaker is quite nice. Many of my guitars are on the brighter side (single coils) and I can easily get a nice warm tone. It's a good amp, and that is coming from a player who has for years avoided modelling amps.

Thank you! That's really good to hear. Your input is much appreciated!

[broturtel]

I was wondering because even if it were true ("It operates, behaves, and sounds like the original deluxe reverb."), which I don't know, Fender makes about a half dozen modeling amps in the 40-50W range that look like they are even lighter and about $750 less expensive. If deciding to go the modeling amp route, those should be auditioned, if only to exclude them if they don't sound good enough.

I understand what you're saying. I also grew up playing in church, so I know what a lot of solid-state fender amps sound like and I've even owned in previous years. I really like how this amp sounds, though. We all like what we like. One thing many modeling amps don't do well is emulate a single amp. A lot of modeling amps emulate a lot of different sounds, but I like the way the TMDR sounds quite a bit. Thanks for your input though. I'll keep it in mind if I decide to look for a different amp.

[Campbell_jazz]

As a tube amp user who has mostly switched to the TMDR (black panel), I wanted to bring up 2 points.

First, and just to ensure clarity, the black panel TMDR also has a firmware update that virtually clips the bright cap. This update is designed for the Jensen speaker. Thus, the celestion and firmware update are not necessary to warm up the black panel TMDR.

Second, we hear (at least partially) with our eyes — looking the part while getting 90%+ of that real tube sound makes for a formidable amp. The black panel TMDR has the aesthetic and image that helps set (and realize) the classic fender tone you may be after.

[broturtel]

As a tube amp user who has mostly switched to the TMDR (black panel), I wanted to bring up 2 points.

First, and just to ensure clarity, the black panel TMDR also has a firmware update that virtually clips the bright cap. This update is designed for the Jensen speaker. Thus, the celestion and firmware update are not necessary to warm up the black panel TMDR.

Second, we hear (at least partially) with our eyes — looking the part while getting 90%+ of that real tube sound makes for a formidable amp. The black panel TMDR has the aesthetic and image that helps set (and realize) the classic fender tone you may be after.

This is exactly what I was wondering. Thank you so much! The blackface it is. I'm stoked.

[frankhond]

Fender makes about a half dozen modeling amps in the 40-50W range that look like they are even lighter and about $750 less expensive. If deciding to go the modeling amp route, those should be auditioned, if only to exclude them if they don't sound good enough.

In the various rehearsal spaces I’ve been, there were a variety of these Fenders… Champion 100, mustang something… They sound ok-ish but the cleans / edge of breakup lacks dynamics. And didn’t sound that great with overdrive. I vastly preferred the tonemaster sound.

Another alternative is an analog solid state modeler like Quilter Aviator or One Control BJF S-66. I have the latter and it’s impossible to make it sound bad.

[tbeltrans]

As a tube amp user who has mostly switched to the TMDR (black panel), I wanted to bring up 2 points.

First, and just to ensure clarity, the black panel TMDR also has a firmware update that virtually clips the bright cap. This update is designed for the Jensen speaker. Thus, the celestion and firmware update are not necessary to warm up the black panel TMDR.

Second, we hear (at least partially) with our eyes — looking the part while getting 90%+ of that real tube sound makes for a formidable amp. The black panel TMDR has the aesthetic and image that helps set (and realize) the classic fender tone you may be after.

While this is essentially true, I did install that black face firmware update along the way, but still prefer the Celestion speaker and blonde firmware. With the TMDR, we have choices and for each individual, the final choice may be different. If possible, try BOTH the black face and the blonde models before you buy, and buy the model that is most suitable to you.

Tony

[broturtel]

Alright everyone, an update and notice for all future buyers:

I ended up going with the blackface TMDR. TONS of freaking headroom. my Eastman AR810CE, I have a hand wound Kent Armstrong PAF-0, and I actually have the pickup attached to the body with adhesive, so it’s not too close to the strings. And with that, I have plenty of headroom. I can almost get it to 10 and there isn’t the least bit of breakup. It gets way too loud even on 0.5 watts and I gotta turn it down. Beautiful sounding. With my 335 copy, still the same thing I think it doesn’t start breaking up until about 7 and I have humbuckers on it. It’s an Eastman 410 if you’re wondering.

All that being said, the amp sounds fantastic. I’ll probably get a drive pedal just so I can drive it at lower volumes with the setup I have. Just for some dirt. I’m not a pedal user by any means, but I think it’ll be a good investment.

all in all this is one of the best amps I’ve ever played through, and I’m beyond happy with my purchase. Thanks everyone for the help.

cheers,
BT

edit: it’s an Eastman T486, not a 410. Apologies.

[st.bede]

i do not own a TM but I like to use the fake attenuation to get the amp sounding like it is pushing tubes… IDK if you have tried that or not, IDK if that is enough dirt for you or not… just in case you have not tried that yet.

[mad dog]

I have the black Tone Master DR. It does indeed sound like the tube version of the later DRs. Mine is completely stock, so apparently still has the bright cap. If that affects the sound, I don't notice it. I tend to run amp volume around 4, 4.5, controlling volume from the guitar. Guessing at that level the bright cap is no longer affecting sound. Just my opinion here: the stock neo speaker in the black TMDR is just fine. I would not change it.

The one thing the firmware update could help is the reverb. I don't use amp reverb typically, preferring pedals. On this amp, anything over 2.5 is way too much. I've read that the update changes the taper on the reverb knob, which would be a good thing.

[skiboyny]

The bright cap only affects the tone stack when the volume is low FWIW. It has no effect on headroom. The speaker would account for most of the difference I would think.

[Cunamara]

Congrats, broturtel! May you enjoy making music through it for years to come.

I get together with a friend every Monday evening to play and he has the TMDR. He likes it a whole lot and I have enjoyed playing through it, it sounds great. He did the software update and it did sort of smooth the amp out just a little bit at lower volumes and the reverb is indeed more controllable. But the tone is just really good.

He also has a 70s Twin which I prefer slightly, I think because the two speakers round off/fatten the top end of the notes just a little bit. With my eyes closed, though, I would probably have difficulty preferring one to the other because the TMDR is that good. And the weight, when you pick it up, is just sort of eerie.

[Karlos]

Hi, I read your messages, but I don't understand one thing. For warm, round, full Jazz tones, is Blonde or normal better? Thanks

[Cunamara]

Hi, I read your messages, but I don't understand one thing. For warm, round, full Jazz tones, is Blonde or normal better? Thanks

Yes.

[Karlos]

Yes.

Yes, which one?

[Cunamara]

Sorry, the joke apparently didn't go over. "Which gelato is better, vanilla or strawberry?" "Yes."

Either the blonde or blackface is fine IMHO. And frankly no one but you can tell you which one is better for you, so stop asking. You are repeating the same questions over and over again in different threads. If you want certainty of a warm, fat sound then get a Fender 5E3 (tweed Deluxe) type amp, which is about as warm and fat as you can get at the cost of some clean headroom. Think Kenny Burrell on the Midnight Blue album, on which he used the Blue Note house amp- a tweed Deluxe. "Better" tone than that doesn't exist. I've used one for nearly 15 years and am happy with it.

Warm, fat tone also involves your guitar, the tone and volume setting on the instrument, your picks and strings, your picking technique, your choice of voicings, your EQ settings on the amp, etc. Almost any decent amp can give you warm, fat tones. Jazz players use old and new Fenders, Marshalls, Ampegs, Polytones, Voxes, Lunchboxes, Quilters, Rolands, etc. and get warm, fat tones. Everything from 6" speakers to 15".

My friend has the blackface TMDR to which he has installed the software update which simulates clipping the bright cap. It is a great sounding amp. I have used it with my 17" archtop, my ES-175, my Ibanez GB10, my Telecasters, my... you get the idea. It always sounds great.

Just buy an amp and play. There is no "best" or "perfect" amp. Just buy one and get on with it. Either of the TMDRs are a good choice.

[Karlos]

Sorry, the joke apparently didn't go over. "Which gelato is better, vanilla or strawberry?" "Yes."

Either the blonde or blackface is fine IMHO. And frankly no one but you can tell you which one is better for you, so stop asking. You are repeating the same questions over and over again in different threads. If you want certainty of a warm, fat sound then get a Fender 5E3 (tweed Deluxe) type amp, which is about as warm and fat as you can get at the cost of some clean headroom. Think Kenny Burrell on the Midnight Blue album, on which he used the Blue Note house amp- a tweed Deluxe. "Better" tone than that doesn't exist. I've used one for nearly 15 years and am happy with it.

Warm, fat tone also involves your guitar, the tone and volume setting on the instrument, your picks and strings, your picking technique, your choice of voicings, your EQ settings on the amp, etc. Almost any decent amp can give you warm, fat tones. Jazz players use old and new Fenders, Marshalls, Ampegs, Polytones, Voxes, Lunchboxes, Quilters, Rolands, etc. and get warm, fat tones. Everything from 6" speakers to 15".

My friend has the blackface TMDR to which he has installed the software update which simulates clipping the bright cap. It is a great sounding amp. I have used it with my 17" archtop, my ES-175, my Ibanez GB10, my Telecasters, my... you get the idea. It always sounds great.

Just buy an amp and play. There is no "best" or "perfect" amp. Just buy one and get on with it. Either of the TMDRs are a good choice.

Hi, probably the translator changes the meaning of things a little! It is clear that the warm tone is obtained by the sum of many options that contribute to the warm tone. If I asked the question it is because someone has heard the differences between the two versions! So the difference is made with all the other variables equal. Anyway, thanks for giving your opinion.