TI Swing strings 12s vs. D'Addario Chromes 11s and a new Telecaster

[CaptainLemming]

Good Morning All,

I've just bought a telecaster and am looking to up the string gauge and switch to flat wound. I read, on the internet, that going from "10's" to "11's" is not a problem, that it not likely affect the nut or neck relief. Switching to "12's", however, is considerably more problematic without a proper setup. Thats fine. But when I compare the overall gauge difference between TI Swing strings "12's" vs. D' Addario Chromes "11's" (summed across the strings) the difference is small. In fact some of the individual TI strings G, D, and A are lower gauge and the TI's overall are lighter. Here are the gauges for each:

D' Addario Chromes: 11, 15, 22w, 30, 40, 50 (168 total)
TI Swings: 12, 16, 20, 27, 37, 50 (162 total)

With a net total difference or whatever of 6 with D' Addario being the heavyweight, and with lighter tension for half of the TI strings, is there really a considerable change here? Actually, wouldn't the change to the TI be less problematic? Or have I had too much coffee this morning?

Thanks.

[skiboyny]

All things being equal due to the gauging and the nickel construction of Thomastiks they are less tension if you look at the E-B as deciding factors. So you probably will use the same truss setting going from D'addario 11s to Thomastik 12s. Why worry though? The corresponding truss adjustment would be very slight and easy to do regardless of which brand you choose.

Good Morning All,

I've just bought a telecaster and am looking to up the string gauge and switch to flat wound. I read, on the internet, that going from "10's" to "11's" is not a problem, that it not likely affect the nut or neck relief. Switching to "12's", however, is considerably more problematic without a proper setup. Thats fine. But when I compare the overall gauge difference between TI Swing strings "12's" vs. D' Addario Chromes "11's" (summed across the strings) the difference is small. In fact some of the individual TI strings G, D, and A are lower gauge and the TI's overall are lighter. Here are the gauges for each:

D' Addario Chromes: 11, 15, 22w, 30, 40, 50 (168 total)
TI Swings: 12, 16, 20, 27, 37, 50 (162 total)

With a net total difference or whatever of 6 with D' Addario being heavyweight, and with lighter tension for half of the TI strings, is there really a considerable change here? Actually, wouldn't the change to the TI be less problematic? Or have I had too much coffee this morning?

Thanks.

[bluenote61]

If you would like to compare the force of different string sets on the guitar neck you cannnot simply add the gauges.
Due to different material composition of each set they apply different forces onto the neck when strung up, even if they have the same gauge.
The correct way is to summarize the forces of each string of a set and then compare it with a different set.
The forces of each string of a set are usually available, sometimes they are also written on the package.

However, as said in the thread above, it not an issue to adapt the neck relief for such string change.

[CaptainLemming]

Thanks for your replies. I agree the adjustment should be small and so I shouldn't worry. I'll try the TIs this evening then. I just wish discussions on the subject were a little more nuanced than "going from 10's to 12's", etc. Its rather misleading. At any rate, I should spend less time worrying and more practicing! Thanks again.

[Cunamara]

In terms of neck relief, total tension in the string set is the key issue. The diameter of the core of the wound strings (the wrappings do not carry any tension as they would just be pulled apart if they did) and the pitch to which the string is tuned determine tension. Many string manufacturers post the tension of their strings at standard pitch, which does make the comparison easier.

The material from which the string is made has an effect on tone but little to no effect on string tension. Perceived stiffness of the string when being played is affected by many factors besides string tension. Flatwound strings wound with a ribbon wrapping are going to feel stiffer than roundwound strings because of the geometry of the wrapping wire, for example, and this also is what gives those strings their characteristic "thunk."

TI strings are wound around a thinner core than many other brands, using a heavier wrapping wire to compensate, which is why those strings feel lighter and have less tension than many other brands of the same nominal diameter. My own experience with Tele/Stratocasters is that you could put anything from 8s to 13s on them, just tweak the truss rod and the intonation and maybe file the nut to fit and they'll work perfectly well. FWIW I seem to have settled on 11–50 roundwound sets (SIT S1150 currently) for almost all of my guitars as the best compromise between town, comfort, etc.

[jads57]

I tried Thomastik Strings awhile back and found them to be really excellent as well as expensive! I figured I could go through 4 sets of D’Addarios for the same price. These were not Flatwounds, but their Roundwounds.

[CaptainLemming]

In terms of neck relief, total tension in the string set is the key issue. The diameter of the core of the wound strings (the wrappings do not carry any tension as they would just be pulled apart if they did) and the pitch to which the string is tuned determine tension. Many string manufacturers post the tension of their strings at standard pitch, which does make the comparison easier.

The material from which the string is made has an effect on tone but little to no effect on string tension. Perceived stiffness of the string when being played is affected by many factors besides string tension. Flatwound strings wound with a ribbon wrapping are going to feel stiffer than roundwound strings because of the geometry of the wrapping wire, for example, and this also is what gives those strings their characteristic "thunk."

TI strings are wound around a thinner core than many other brands, using a heavier wrapping wire to compensate, which is why those strings feel lighter and have less tension than many other brands of the same nominal diameter. My own experience with Tele/Stratocasters is that you could put anything from 8s to 13s on them, just tweak the truss rod and the intonation and maybe file the nut to fit and they'll work perfectly well. FWIW I seem to have settled on 11–50 roundwound sets (SIT S1150 currently) for almost all of my guitars as the best compromise between town, comfort, etc.

I just put the Tomastik strings on. Despite the gauge they do feel more stiff, which I like. I guess it may be their composition as you've said. Though, as you said, they are lighter than other brands of the same gauge, they may in this case seem heavier. Thanks for that insight. Of course, the old strings were on that guitar since shipped from factory back in early May. Theres that to consider as well. They were gauge 10-48.

Nut seems ok and relief seems to have improved, oddly. Less buzzing now too. Action, however, is still high and the intonation is now off a bit. I guess thats to be expected. I'll tend to this this evening.

[pcjazz]

I tried Thomastik Strings awhile back and found them to be really excellent as well as expensive! I figured I could go through 4 sets of D’Addarios for the same price. These were not Flatwounds, but their Roundwounds.

You might very well go through 4 sets of D’As in the lifetime of one set of TIs.

[bluenote61]

You might very well go through 4 sets of D’As in the lifetime of one set of TIs.

That’s true. And the reason why I use TI on my 'daily use' archtop. Aside from the good tone, of course.

[Filmosound 621]

I love ( Thomastik ) flatwounds, but I am not sure, if the Telecaster is the right guitar for them.


The sound that makes a Telecaster a Telecaster is not present anymore with a string change towards flatwounds,

still, the Telecaster does not sound as good as my Laminate Gibsons when it tries to be a "Jazz Guitar".


too much to lose with not enough to gain, IMO.

Thomastik BeBops or better still: Elixir nanowebs for enough Telecaster sound without too much Telecaster jangle and string sqeak.


I had three very fine telecasters, but never played them enough to justify their ownership.

Still like Telecasters a lot, now enjoying them from a safe distance.

[mr. beaumont]

I love ( Thomastik ) flatwounds, but I am not sure, if the Telecaster is the right guitar for them.


The sound that makes a Telecaster a Telecaster is not present anymore with a string change towards flatwounds,

still, the Telecaster does not sound as good as my Laminate Gibsons when it tries to be a "Jazz Guitar".


too much to lose with not enough to gain, IMO.

Thomastik BeBops or better still: Elixir nanowebs for enough Telecaster sound without too much Telecaster jangle and string sqeak.


I had three very fine telecasters, but never played them enough to justify their ownership.

Still like Telecasters a lot, now enjoying them from a safe distance.

Here I am, playing a tele with .012 gauge flatwounds.

Still sounds like a tele, I suppose. I can do jazz gigs on this same guitar, no problem.

[CaptainLemming]

I love ( Thomastik ) flatwounds, but I am not sure, if the Telecaster is the right guitar for them.


The sound that makes a Telecaster a Telecaster is not present anymore with a string change towards flatwounds,

still, the Telecaster does not sound as good as my Laminate Gibsons when it tries to be a "Jazz Guitar".


too much to lose with not enough to gain, IMO.

Thomastik BeBops or better still: Elixir nanowebs for enough Telecaster sound without too much Telecaster jangle and string sqeak.


I had three very fine telecasters, but never played them enough to justify their ownership.

Still like Telecasters a lot, now enjoying them from a safe distance.

Well, it is a tradeoff to be sure. The telecaster is a swiss army knife guitar. A desert island option, IMO. And as Mr. Beaumont showed, flat 12s will get that tele twang. Just not as much as some, maybe most, want? Would work for me though. My new tele has a humbucker in the neck. Ive a 335 type that i love but is too big too play for extended periods while seated.Cuts the circulation off in my strumming arm. But main reason I dont have the 335 out for regular use is that it will get knocked around too much. I also have a baja tele, and that thing has proved durable, but it doesn't get close enough to the jazz sounds I am after (especially considering how bad I suck, lol). This new one does I think, though we both are on honeymoon ATM.

Ive other less expensive semi hollow body guitars but somehow they end up with strange rattling sounds in the body or sitar sounding strings, etc. But I must say a PRS SE hollow body is great for the price, so is my Korean(?) made Guild. Just that rattling.

The baja tele is very solid and rattle free. Buzzes some but not a big deal. Maybe they should a little bit? I've round wound 10-46s on it (I think).

I should say the new guitar is a G&L Fullerton ASAT Classic Bluesboy.

[Filmosound 621]

it might be a matter of personal taste, to me, a telecaster with flatwounds does not sound

like a telecaster with regular round wound strings.

I play with my fingers, at home in my living room.

[Stringswinger]

Telecasters were originally shipped with flatwounds back in the day and IMO, Telecasters sound great with flats.

Going from 10 rounds to TI Flatwound 11's or 12's might create an intonation issue due to the wound third string and might require a small truss rod adjustment. But it should work fine. I have run Teles that came to me with 10 Rounds with TI Flatwound 12's and after a bit of adjusting, it all worked out great.

[blille]

What I do is use Chromes 10s and swap the top two to 12 and 16. That gets you very close to the TI gauges at a better price.

And generally you can’t just add the gauges to assess similarity because “5” more in a string may be very different from one to the next. What you want to compare is tension measured by lbs/kg.

[CaptainLemming]

Telecasters were originally shipped with flatwounds back in the day and IMO, Telecasters sound great with flats.

Going from 10 rounds to TI Flatwound 11's or 12's might create an intonation issue due to the wound third string and might require a small truss rod adjustment. But it should work fine. I have run Teles that came to me with 10 Rounds with TI Flatwound 12's and after a bit of adjusting, it all worked out great.

Thats exactly what I needed to do, and adjust the string height. Once the guitar "came into focus" with the new strings it sounds excellent, IMO. Anyways, I took my time as I've only done this a few times. Since I didn't feel the need to file the nut slots I'd thought I could manage. The jump in string gauge, as you mentioned, was really not too much of an issue.

Thanks all.

[jads57]

Well for Flat-wounds it probably is maybe once a year you change strings, so I can see the value in T.I. Strings.
But for me a Round Wounds are adifferent story altogether. And changing strings probably every 4 weeks or so is my usual method. So it doesn’t make sense to pay the premium here in the US for T.I.Strings.

[Marty Grass]

Long ago in Kalamazoo, Ren Wall began applying weights to guitar strings to determine how many pounds of pull were necessary to achieve pitch. He would hang a string over a pulley and add weights until the 25" scale length came to the right note. He worked with GHS to make "balanced sets". The hope was that using a balanced set would prevent neck twists.

Once GHS started to do this, other companies followed.

The potential value of looking at the tension of a set of strings is to predict whether you will need to adjust the truss rod. Most of us wouldn't bother approaching that decision this way and would restring and make the decision on how the neck responds. But it could be useful to refer to the tension numbers in advance.

Guitar String Tension Chart