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Does anyone have experience with Dale Unger's carved archtop, the Legend? The price starts at $6,800.
Legend American Archtop Guitar
| American Archtop Guitars
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08-21-2022 12:17 PM
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Dale's been around for a while -- very well-respected builder, and makes wonderful guitars! Are you wanting to buy, or just curious?
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Dale is a stellar luthier and a good guy. I “discovered” him the first year he brought his work to the Philly guitar show, and I really loved the ones I played there…..and every one since. I’m working on a deal to buy a laminate 7 of his right now, since I was unable to get enough info and pics to make a reasonable offer for the Foster Basin Street 7 that’s been on the Sale board here for months.
American Archtops are vibrant, rich in tone, great to play, very well made, and beautiful. The ones I’ve played don’t thunk heavily - they had a full old school acoustic tone and were (surprise, surprise!) very much like the similar Benedettos I’ve played. They’re very musical and balanced up and down the spectrum. To be honest, I think they’re as good as similar Benedetto models at lower cost. I hope to seal a deal on mine this week.
If you like the way they sound and feel, you can’t go wrong with an AA!
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Considering a purchase of a Legend. It's his carved model.
Originally Posted by marcwhy
I played a Benedetto 16b at their HQ and really liked it, but the price of $12.5k is a lot to spend. I was hoping the Dale Unger might be similar at a much lower price. But without playing the Dale Unger it's hard to be sure...
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There are some differences worth noting. The AA is a very simple and elegant guitar and I think it’s gorgeous - but it’s not at all fancy or embellished. The 16b has multi-ply binding and looks more like a traditional high end archtop. The AA is a bit deeper and has a floating p’up. The 16b has a set A6. This is a wonderful jazz p’up, as are all the Benedetto-branded ones. I put a B7 in my 16” and love it, although I have a KA floater on my 17” carved box and love that too. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
Only you can know if you clearly prefer either for other than economic reasons, and you’d need to play them both to have even a rough idea. I haven’t played them both, so I can’t comment on necks, fb radius, string spacing and the other basic parameters. The AA I’m trying to buy has a very large neck even for a 7 string, but I don’t recall thinking that the necks on the others I’ve played had unusual or remarkable size, shape etc. I have very long fingers, so the fat neck appeals to me - and whoever bought the one I want found the neck to be too big for him and returned it. So you do need to know basic neck dimensions & profile. But if you’re commissioning one, you can order what you like on either one.
To me, the 16b is simply not worth an additional $6k over the Unger, assuming you are ordering a new one as you want it. If you’re talking about instruments that have already been made, you may find one much better suited to you than the other.
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I have an Unger American Legend, hand carved by Dale in 2000. It is a fantastic guitar in every way. Flawless workmanship and it sounds amazing. It is nearly identical to Bob Benedetto’s Manhattan model which Dale based this guitar on (Dale worked with Bob back in time and he had Bob’s blessing to use his design). Originally, Dale seemed to mostly make laminated guitars. I owned one of them for while and it was a fine instrument, but the solid/hand-carved American Legend is a higher end guitar that sounds great acoustically. Unger guitars don’t seem to get as much attention as they deserve and a used one can be quite a bargain.
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Looks like a very fine Benedetto style archtop! I’d grab it if I had the chance. I bet it truly sounds beautiful.
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Mine is a 7 String, slightly tinted natural finish with no inlays or binding. I attached some pictures. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
Keith
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Your guitar is beautiful!
I wasn't sure about no binding on a guitar; however, it's simplicity is very attractive.
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Very much in the Benedetto DNA style and tonality. So as noted., not like old heavier carved top Gibsons or D’Angelico style that have more pronounce midrange.
Think a bit more scooped in the mids type of sound. Can be quite pleasing acoustically as well. Very nice instruments for sure!
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Which pickup do you have? How does it sound plugged in? Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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I bought the guitar used so I don’t have the documentation of the original specs. Having said that, I’m pretty sure it’s a Kent Armstrong “smooth-top” floating pickup. I have had that pickup on a few other guitars and this appears to be the same pickup. Also, since it’s a 7 String guitar, there aren’t that many other pickups that it could be. It sounds great plugged in. Very warm and lots of mid range, which is what I look for in an archtop. It has a tone control, which makes a huge difference in my mind. I recorded a short video back in time, comparing the acoustic sound of the Unger and my 1963 L5C. I didn’t record the guitars plugged in and I don’t recall if I used a good microphone or just played in front of my computer. If you want to hear the two guitars, the video is here Originally Posted by charleyrich99
Keith
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Thanks for the video. That was some nice playing.too.
Last edited by charleyrich99; 08-24-2022 at 10:00 AM.
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Thanks. I think there were a few clams in there, but it gives you an idea of what the guitar sounds like. It sounds warm and more modern than the L5, which sounds bright in comparison. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
Keith
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I played a 2006 AA Dream yesterday - laminated top and back but very similar in sound and feel to yours, Keith. The pickup on the one I played was definitely a Kent-made KA, and it’s wonderful. I was very impressed with the guitar! Originally Posted by floatingpickup
Do your L-5C and AA have the same brand, size and type of strings on them? The AA I played yesterday had a set of medium Benson TI flats over a RW 75, and it seemed a bit fuller and deeper than yours despite the lam top. It might just be the way you recorded it, but I’ve found Dale’s guitars to let different strings show off their own voices more clearly than many other instruments I’ve played or heard.
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How do you like its amplified sound as compared to your L-5? Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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Yes, both guitars had TI 13-53 Jazz Swing flatwounds (I can see the red silk windings on the headstock). I think I had a D’Addario roundwound 80 on the seventh at that time. I like that particular set of strings so much that I have them on most of my guitars. I owned a laminated American Dream 7 string a few years ago and it sounded great too. The laminated body was quite resonant. Was the AA you played the one that is for sale in Toronto by any chance? Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Keith
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No, it’s not. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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They are very different. The pickups are quite different and the early Gibson Johnny Smith pickup on the L5 does not have a tone control. The L5 is a bright guitar to begin with and the lack of a tone control makes the amplified sound bright as well. My Unger sounds more like my Benedetto Fratello. Both guitars are X-braced and have lots of mid range and warmth acoustically as well as through an amp (both of those guitars have floating pickups with volume and tone controls). Originally Posted by charleyrich99
Keith
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I am pretty sure the American Dream that is for sale in Toronto is a guitar that originally belonged to my brother. It is basically identical to mine, except laminated. I played his guitar and it sounded great. He really liked the guitar but he prefers a smaller body, so he sold it and bought a 16” American Legend. The one in Toronto is for sale for $4K CDN, which is around $3100 USD. American Archtop 7-String Dream Natural, 1999 - The Twelfth Fret Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Keith
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Thanks, The 17” Dream with 2 5/8” deep body is a perfect size for me - I wear a 36” sleeve and have long, thin fingers. But so far, every Dream I’ve seen that’s over 12 to 15 years old needs work that the seller chooses to ignore. They’re great guitars for serious players and have little appeal for status seekers and collectors. So they’ve all been played a lot, and every one I’ve looked at has needed frets. Some have had other issues as well - but they all sounded great and need only routine work to be like new for another 15 years of gigging. Each was a fine basic instrument built for the long haul but in need of its 100,000 mile service. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
Whatever I find, if the maker is still working and accessible, I’ll take it to him or her for whatever it needs. I’ll look into the one in Toronto - I really appreciate the tip!
[edit:] I found that ad a while ago but was put off by the pasted descriptions from the AA website and the fact that it’s consigned. The consignment fee is usually enough to pay for refretting. If the owner and the agent simply split the reduction in selling price to allow for this, the price would be right. Instead, neither admits to the need for new frets etc, so the guitars remain unsold for months to years. The last two I took a serious shot at have been for sale for 6 months and over a year. Both are fine instruments, but the sellers think they’re worth many hundreds more than they are. The fact that some have been for sale for many months supports this.
These laminated instruments are wonderful guitars built in relatively larger numbers than the same luthiers’ “better” models and are meant for use by active musicians. They’re not fancy trophies or museum pieces. Many were bought new for home use because the owner wanted a high quality name on a good looking guitar but wouldn’t or couldn’t spend the cost of the top level carved, bound, inlaid beauties that hold their value better. These seem to be resold within a year or two when the owner realizes that only serious guitarists are impressed by a wonderful but plain looking laminated instrument with neither a widely recognized name nor much of a downstream resale market.
The second owner usually gets it for hundreds off the original price and uses it until it needs something, when it's suddenly "close to perfect" again and for sale at an unreasonable price. Every one I've looked at has had at least 3 owners, of whom one used it hard. And the two I inspected in person still had stickers inside from well known internet sellers who had obviously sold it before (or tried to).Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 08-25-2022 at 02:33 PM.
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