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I love my tube amps … champ, tweed deluxe, vibrolux, and Princeton. They make my archtop do the things I want them to do.
I want to play solid state amps due to their weight, consistency, convenience … The issue I have is the sound is just missing that tube thing.
I recently heard that some players don’t even like black face amps
because they are too clean. That is, there is no clean(ish) harmonic distortion that colors the clean signal giving it more of an organic character.
With all that said, I am curious what other tube converts have done to get that tone in solid state amps. Is it even possible … Or do you just realize that in a live mix, the tube subtleties will get lost and not even
matter?
Cheers all!
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08-02-2022 04:50 PM
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I think a live mix is THE place where tube subtleties matter, because volumes are high and a good presence in the mix and onstage is crucial.
For me tubes are a love affair, the normal guitar sound, and solid state is a great tool that has made my musical life a lot easier! I can't imagine not having either. Digital I could live without, but I also use it.
I haven't found anything solid state that is really tube like, but pretty much all good solid state amps nowadays have usable sounds that you can happily gig with. If you have musical situations where portability is more important than having 100% sound, there is your reason for SS!
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I do not view my SS amps (Evans RE200 + BUD 6") as substitutes for one of my tube amps (Juke CODA + GLB Gig50) but as tools for a particular job at which both excel. It's a different sound and feel alright but just as useable, musical and inspiring to me as the other two. Add to that the benefit of more volume , lighter weight, smaller footprint and 100% reliability.
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Good points. If I play a SS combo (a Luna or Polytone head into a RE cab) next to my vibrolux, there is no comparison. If I reset my thinking to my SS, asA sound and not THE sound, all is good. The SS has a function and is suitable to it.
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what is the most tube like SS amp ?
Walter Woods ?
Quilter ?
DV Mark ?
Fender Tonemaster ?
something else
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Hi pingu!
Having played a Walter Woods from 1989-last year, yes it is as tube like as SS can be. But I will give you my reasons for having switched to Quilter.
In speaking with Walter, he researched transistors to find response curves closest to a vacuum tube. He had to reach back to some of the very first designs and had them made for him, IIRC. Once transistors came out, since the primary need was in switching designs, the response curves became as fast as technology of the day allowed. Thus the horrible brittle SS amps of 1970.
I never missed my tube amps (74 PR, 74 TR, homemade VR). Playing any of my tube amps always sent me back to the Woods. They respond beautifully, can have a creamy textured sound, and Tal, Barney, Herbie, and Charlie Byrd all were devotees.
Mine decided last year to start fading out. Have not had the ability to get into it as we moved, illness, life, etc. There are some darned odd parts in them. I found a transistor in the preamp to be… ready… a custom trans from Fairchild used in the F4 weapons control computer. (Howard Dumble had nothing on Walter.) Needless to say there is nothing on the net about it other than old contract numbers. 30+ years out of an amp is not bad, I hope to get it healthy. Walter never produced schematics for each variation level of the amps. Troubleshooting At a whole new level.
Quilter: the more I play it the more I’m satisfied. Tried the 101, way too shrill and hard to control. But the 202 is great. Not hard to mimic the Woods. It doesn’t have the same interactive feel Walter achieved, but isn’t dead SS either. I used the Woods with an EVM-12, the Quilter is in a Block Dock that’s got the Celestion BN12-300S 12”. A nice, smooth, creamy Neo bass guitar speaker. You must use the FRFS out setting. Shrill awaits if you don’t. Got that tip from Mr. Quilter.
If you can find a Woods that’s not been gigged to death I would say go for it, with the above in mind!
DV Mark uses a generic Class D board, I have heard it’s the IcePower. I finally got to hear one and TBH other than price I don’t get it. My ears).
PM for more Woods stories.
jkLast edited by jazzkritter; 08-02-2022 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Wordsmithing.
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I learned a long time ago that it was something of a fools' errand to try to get a "tube" sound out of a "solid state" amp. You can get great sounds out of either of them, but they're going to be different.
My amps at home consist of a circa 70-71 Pro Reverb with two JBL speakers in it, a 5E3 clone that I built and has some mods that I like a lot, a Polytone Baby Taurus and an AI Clarus 2r into a RE 12", with a SansAmp ParaDriver DI in front of it. Which one sounds best? All of them.
I hate to be glib, but they all have their own distinctive and enjoyable sound. If I was to go gigging, the Fender PR and the Polytone would not make the cut, the first because it's just too heavy to tote around- even though I've had it for 35 years or more and love the sound- and the second because it's too small and doesn't have enough power.
What do I take to rehearsals with the band? I take the Para Driver DI and plug it into a powered FRFR speaker at the rehearsal venue, twirl the knobs and call it good. It surprisingly sounds very, very good. Easy, stress-free, set it and forget it. Actually, some of the best jazz tone I've ever managed to get. If I played a gig with a PA and decent monitors, I might just plug that right into the board and not even worry about an amp on stage. When I go over to a friend's for our Monday night duo get together, I just use his silverface Fender Twin and that sounds fabulous.
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A Princeton Reverb is too heavy?
Someone should start eating their Wheaties
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Polytone.
It’s the feel.
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The answer came for me, a few years ago now, when many amps, in particular Fender, mastered the modelling amp. Try a Fender Tonemaster version of an amp you like, or get a Mustang with all the models. I wanted a Twin Reverb, but they are too heavy and cost too much. First time I tried the Twin Reverb model on a Mustang GT100, I was sold.
Originally Posted by Campbell_jazz
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Hi Cunamara, I guess you mean this Originally Posted by Cunamara
Paradriver DI – Tech 21 NYC
but for our purposes wouldn't it be better this one
GT2 – Tech 21 NYC ?
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I like the tone I get from my '81 Fender Concert with the addition of a 2X12 speaker box.
Nothing else sounds exactly, precisely like that. And nothing sounds as good.
It's stored in the garage. What I actually play and practice with are amplifiers that meet real world requirements.
Mostly using a Strymon Iridium modeler but Quilter works pretty well.
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I have both and I very much like the sound of the Paradriver DI much better for jazz. It has far more tone shaping power thanks to the parametric mids control. But my use case is with the AI, which is probably more like a PA head than a typical guitar amp, or a powered FRFR speaker. Someone else's use case may be different and the GT2 might work better for them. Originally Posted by Jazz_175
Also, for some time I used a Zoom MS-100BT multi-FX pedal into an FRFR speaker (Alto TS-110a) and had pretty reasonable results with that. The output of this pedal is quite high. Sometimes that setup was my amp facing the audience. I did one gig just running straight from the pedal into the PA, using the floor monitors to hear myself, and that seemed to work well too. Some other gigs, I ran the pedal into the Alto and then ran a balanced line out from that to the PA, so my speaker was more of a monitor than anything the audience heard. The advantage there was to be able to chain together reverb, delay, amp models, overdrive, etc., in one standard Boss-sized pedal. When using the FRFR as my amp, I think sound dispersion in the room was a bit better than with a standard guitar amp, which is often kind of "beamy." But I went back to using a combo because it was just easier.Last edited by Cunamara; 08-04-2022 at 01:18 AM.
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I tried the Alto 110 driven by the Boss ME80, but it didn't work. ME80 doesn't put out enough volts to drive the Alto properly. Intead, I had to crank the volume most of the way up and the bass response took over. Sounded awful. Nothing wrong with either unit; they're just not designed to work together that way. Something to do with the definition of "line level", pro vs consumer. If anybody knows more about this, please post!
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If you’re gigging then Quilter is a good way to go imo! I love the Clean Tone on them and I’m comparing it to any Clean Tube amp I ever owned and that’s many Fenders, Mesa Boogies, Dumble, etc.
You need to find what ultimately works best for you. But I own 3 different Quilters Aviator 1x8” Combo, TB202 head, and now for direct a UK Superblock.
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+1 on Quilter. You can get a very good clean tone from any of their recent amps (Aviator Cub, Mach 3, etc.) depending on what other flavors you want along with it. I particularly like the TB202, which gives both a great “Fender-y” tone and a full-frequency, more modern clean tone. They’re well-designed, compact, and reliable. Originally Posted by jads57
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I use a SS Mambo 10 and a Gig50. Had the same experience but went into a different direction by buying the new Universal Audio Dream 65. On both my amps it sounds great and even very tube-like directly into my interface.
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I got rid of all tubes years ago. Went with Fishman not a bit sorry and don't miss that "tube sound". I don't hear any difference.
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Alto uses 0 dBu into a 600 Ohm load as its reference level, and that’s 0.775 volts. The usual reference level for analog consumer audio has been 0 dBV for many years, and this is a signal of 1 volt amplitude into any load. The Alto’s max input is stated as +23 dBu, which is one whopping signal (about 11V). Most consumer audio equipment puts out no more than 2 volts into a high impedance load and can’t even drive amplification with a 600 ohm input to audible output levels. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
The nominal output level of the Boss (and most current audio equipment not made for pro audio or studio use) is -10 dBu, which is 1/4 V into 600 Ohms at its rated distortion level. Wide open and driven by a very high output pickup, it wouldn’t come close to 23 dBu. That’s why you get so little output. It’s not a good pairing.
The question is a bit OT, but the answer is something everyone should know and understand to avoid such problems when going to modern amplification. To avoid disappointment, read the specs before buying.
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Tech 21 Blonde in front of any solid state amp gets me most of the way there. You can even go cheaper with a Joyo American...the Blonde is probably the most useful pedal I've ever owned.
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I (hesitatingly) made the tube to SS conversion a couple years ago and never looked back. I was a tube amp fanatic for many decades. Wouldn't even look at a SS amp. But, I auditioned and purchased a Fender Tonemaster Deluxe and I love it. Great tone (clean or dirty), takes pedals like a vintage amp, and the attenuator works really well. Sounds about as tube-like as you can get. More so than a lot of tube amps...boutique or vintage. It checks all the boxes. Plus, it only weighs 23 lbs. IMHO, Fender really did their homework with this one.
There are a good number of great SS amps on the market right now. I'd like to own a Quilter in addition to my Tonemaster Deluxe. But if I could only have one amp it would be the Tonemaster...Deluxe or Twin.Last edited by jumpnblues; 08-04-2022 at 09:58 AM.
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hi mr B Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
could you share any tips on
using the blonde ?
ive got a Hbenton American (joyo)
but I’m not crazy in love with mine
thanks
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that UA pedal looks reallly great Originally Posted by stevus
(its big money tho)
i wonder if Fender will put their
Twin Reverb modelling in a pedal
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Originally Posted by jads57
If I understand correctly, you owned a Dumble? Legendary amp.
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