Floating Neck Pickup Vs. Mounted Pickup

[Steadfastly]

This may be a bit of a strange and technical question but has anyone tested the difference between the acoustic difference between a floating neck pickup and a mounted one on, preferable the same model of guitar?

I have a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin which has a P90 neck pickup and wondering if there would have been a big enough difference for me to buy the model with no pickup and have a floating one installed.

[sgosnell]

Small sample size, with absolutely no control, but I have installed a set humbucker in a solid carved top acoustic archtop, and I hear no difference in the acoustic sound. I would be surprised to hear much if any difference with a relatively cheap laminated guitar. I've been surprised once before, though.

[ccroft]

I sometimes wonder how much those 6 square inches of unmolested spruce top just a quarter inch or so from the biggest hunk of solid wood in the box and flanked by bracing actually contribute to the acoustic tone of an archtop. Prevailing wisdom says it does do something, bit it seems to me it might be a bit of dead zone. Flat tops have a much larger hole right there. It's really hard to test.

I've posted this before: I have 2 carved 16" archtops both with handmade KA Pafs. One is cut in and one floats. I find the thickness of the top and bracing has more to do with the sound than the difference between set and floating pickups.

[JohanAbrandt]

I sometimes wonder how much those 6 square inches of unmolested spruce top just a quarter inch or so from the biggest hunk of solid wood in the box and flanked by bracing actually contribute to the acoustic tone of an archtop. Prevailing wisdom says it does do something, bit it seems to me it might be a bit of dead zone. Flat tops have a much larger hole right there. It's really hard to test.

I've posted this before: I have 2 carved 16" archtops both with handmade KA Pafs. One is cut in and one floats. I find the thickness of the top and bracing has more to do with the sound than the difference between set and floating pickups.

In addition, the op inquires about godin kingpin p90 where, if memory serves me right, the pickup is not ”cut in” but rather mounted on.

[RJVB]

Flat tops have a much larger hole right there.

Do you think that hole can have as much damping effect as a chunk of metal?

[Steadfastly]

In addition, the op inquires about godin kingpin p90 where, if memory serves me right, the pickup is not ”cut in” but rather mounted on.

Yes, I noted that in my first post but it is a good point.

[John A.]

IME, a floater sounds different from a pickup that's connected/coupled physically to the guitar top. So for sure, the plugged-in sound of Godin Kingpin with a floater is going to be different from the sound of a mounted P90. If you check out demos of the 5th Ave Jazz, which is a 5th Ave acoustic with a cutaway and a floater, that should give some sense of how a regular 5th sounds with a floater compared to your Kingpin. But different does not mean better or worse. There are people who prefer a floater to a mounted pickup and vice versa (with the latter being more common I'd guess).

I do remember reading some posts here from someone did mount a floater on a non-pickup 5th Ave and compared this to a Kingpin, but I wasn't immediately able to scare up anything via a cursory search. OP, if you spend some time trying different searches around the topic, maybe you'll find stuff. Anyway, my vague recollection is that the person found that the electric sound of a floater wasn't as good to his tastes as the P90 sound, and the "acoustic" 5th Ave wasn't all that much louder than the Kingpin version (though I could be remembering this wrong). I had a Kingpin for a few years. I found it to be pretty loud unplugged (more like quiet acoustic guitar than a loud unplugged electric, if that makes any sense), and it had a great electric sound. So I'd stick with that rather than an acoustic 5th Avenue with a floater.

[garybaldy]

In addition, the op inquires about godin kingpin p90 where, if memory serves me right, the pickup is not ”cut in” but rather mounted on.

I believe the internal part of a dogear p90, including the pole screws, extends lower than the cover and therefore requires a cut out in the guitar's top.

[John A.]

I believe the internal part of a dogear p90, including the pole screws, extends lower than the cover and therefore requires a cut out in the guitar's top.

Not on the Godin. The fingerboard extension sits higher above the top than on most other archtops because of the way the neck is attached and angled. So there's enough space under the strings for the pickup to sit on a spacer that holds it above the top. The pole screws either graze the top or sit a little above it, depending on how they're adjusted. There's a small hole cut into the top for the pickup wire, and two holes for the volume and tone controls, but the top is otherwise intact.

[Spook410]

I have two guitars from the same maker (Yunzhi).. 17", carved spruce, carved maple b/s, Benedetto design, differing only in a built in humbucker and a floating humbucker. Both have Armstrong handwound 12 pole humbuckers.

The difference in sound is what you might expect and is note-able. The floater has a more acoustic quality plugged in. The built in pickup guitar has a stronger fundamental. I think it has more to do with the coupling that John A mentioned than extra top vibration. Unplugged the floater model has more harmonic content but I think that's the particular guitar.

Doesn't mean much with such a small sample of course..

[ccroft]

That's the funny thing about my 2: the built in sounds more 'acoustic' or 'Benedatoish' than the floater. The specs and materials of the 2 guitars are the same. They are both carved spruce, maple, ebony boards etc. The big diff between the 2 is the floater is on a noticeably thicker top plate.

I'm not trying to say there's no difference in sound. As we always say no 2 guitars are the same. Each depends on every part for it's sound, and that makes it hard to test.

I'm still not convinced that area of the top is a super important one though. Not compared to around the bridge.

[j4zz]

So many things to complicate the issue here. Keeping in mind a P90 is a single coil normally and a neck mounted floating pickup is often a humbucker, but you can buy them differently if you choose. I guess most pickguard mounted floating pickups are single coil but also humbuckers are available? So anyhow, large variations just there, even when mounted the same way.

A floating pickup is mostly only responding to the strings, and not vibrations from below by the guitar top, but then, those strings themselves are responding to the guitar body to which they are attached, which is behaving more acoustically because it doesn't have a hole cut in it for a top mounted P90 or humbucker, also with it's added mass, both things reducing the acoustic properties of the guitar. As has been noted though, a top mounted neck pickup is placed in a spot close to the mass of the head joint of the guitar, where the top is behaving less acoustically.

So, it's only a guess which (floating or top mounted) will sound more acoustic, and then it's up to taste which the player might prefer. The only thing I am sure of is that the hollow body does contribute majorly to the sound, compared to semi-hollow and solid body guitars and single coils and humbuckers sound different.

[burchyk]

A P90 and a floating pickup will probably sound different, at which point I would go with the pickup I prefer not by the minute difference in acoustic sound...

My Guild T50 has a P90ish pickup and a thin laminate top. Acoustically it is better than 175D, but plugged in it's the opposite.

A decent acoustic easily smokes them both unplugged.

[ccroft]

What makes an archtop work is a complete mystery to me. The vast array of sizes, materials, bracings, pickups etc all seem to produce great sounding instruments in the hands of a good player. EG: Kleinhaut has a couple with no f-holes and a round opening in the upper bout corner. Sounds fantastic! And then there's that nut Ken Parker with all his crazy innovations :-)

[Chazmo]

I have four Godin Fifth Avenues in different configurations. At the one extreme is the Kingpin with P90 and tone/volume controls mounted to the top. At the other extreme is an acoustic to which I have added a DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 floating pickup, Schatten tone/volume controls mounted to the underside of the pickguard, and a bone-saddle wooden bridge. The acoustic is indeed more acoustic sounding than the straight-from-the-factory Kingpin, both plugged in and unplugged. I use Martin Retro Monel acoustic strings on the DeArmond-equipped guitar and D'Addario Pure Nickel electric strings on the Kingpin. The bone saddle bridge was not installed when I took the photo below:

[KirkP]

This may be a bit of a strange and technical question but has anyone tested the difference between the acoustic difference between a floating neck pickup and a mounted one on, preferable the same model of guitar?

I have a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin which has a P90 neck pickup and wondering if there would have been a big enough difference for me to buy the model with no pickup and have a floating one installed.

Since the pickup mounts on top with no cutout, it seems unlikely there would be a great *acoustic* difference with and without the pickup. You could remove yours and let it dangle while playing to see for yourself. The hole for the cable shouldn‘t have much of an effect. If there’s a floating pickup you'd prefer to a P90, you could install that on this guitar if you don’t mind the three small holes in the top.
See photos below.

Attachment 48483
Attachment 48482