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Howdy friends,
It's finally time for me to grab my first jazz box and i'd like to tap into the expertise of those on this forum. I've been reading whatever I can on various models (both here and other forums as well) and have compiled my shortlist. Looking to spend around 1500-1800 and buy new; I've had a couple bad experiences with guitars lately that were listed as mint yet came with cracked neck joints, non-functioning pickups, wanna just avoid the headache. Also, unfortunately most of these aren't in any of the stores near me to try out in person so I'm going in "blind". With that out of the way, here's my list and I'd appreciate your input. Sorry if some of my comments seem super obvious or don't make sense, up until now I've only had experience with nylon strings and a few strats so I'm lacking in this department big time. Thanks in advance all!
1. D'angelico Excel EXL-1: ~$1500, I played one of these maybe 10+ years ago at a Guitar Center and they felt pretty nice. The main complaint I saw about this axe was that some folks have experienced the stairstep tailpiece snapping on them. Also, I've seen folks mention these aren't very loud acoustically but I plan to play plugged in most of the time so that shouldn't be an issue.
2. Ibanez LGB30: ~$1200, 0 experience with these outside of YouTube clips, I also saw a bunch of threads of snapping tailpieces. Is this like a major repair? I can change strings but that's as far as my skills take me lol...
3. Eastman T49d/v: ~$1600, my only experience with Eastman was trying a T386 but that neck profile felt pretty comfortable. My only concern with this one is the varnish finish since I live on the east coast and the weather shifts are rather dramatic. I saw one thread mentioning that if the temps go up above 80 the finish starts to distort, I'm not planning on keeping it in the heat but just trying to think ahead in case of a power outage or some other extreme scenario. It seems most Eastman owners are extremely happy with their purchases.
4. Eastman AR503CE: these seem pretty cool too but I saw folks mentioned that feedback is an issue with solid tops.
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04-12-2022 10:49 AM
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Eastman makes a laminate-top version of the AR503 - the AR403.
Originally Posted by moejo313
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Where do you live? Any Guitar Center should have a few Epiphones you can try out.
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I'm in Virginia but I haven't really played an Epiphone that has resonated with me so far. I'm sure part of that is related to the condition of them in guitar center, often with broken pickup selectors, missing tone knobs, broken strings etc.
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No guarantees that they'll have what you're looking for, but Atomic Music up in Beltsville, MD always has tons of used guitars rolling through. Usually for pretty good prices, and the price is often negotiable. Might be worth a trip (depending on where you are in Virginia, of course). Originally Posted by moejo313
edit: sorry, just reread your post and saw you want new.
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(Pressed spruce top, lam maple back and sides, 17" body, floating mini-humbucker, 25.5" scale) I think the tailpiece issue was with very early models, and isn't a problem anymore. This is a pressed (not carved) top, so not really an acoustic guitar (neither a good nor a bad thing). One I tried was actually pretty loud for an electric, but others have been about the same as a laminated guitar with a set-in pickup. I like the electric sound of these. They seem a bit warmer and fuller than other similarly priced non-carved guitars with floaters (which to my tastes is usually not a great combination of features). Originally Posted by moejo313
Haven't tried one, so can't comment on how they sound/feel. (laminated spruce top, lam maple back and sides, 16" body, 24/7" scale, 2 set-in humbuckers). Originally Posted by moejo313
Haven't tried this one, but have tried the AR371 & 2, which are basically the same thing with thicker finish. Nice guitars. They look like an ES-175, but don't really sound like one (more of bright, acoustic vibe than the real thing). If you truly want the ES-175 sound, look elsewhere, but these are otherwise viable guitars. (laminated maple top, lam maple back and sides, 24.75" scale 16" body, 2 set-in humbuckers). Broken tailpieces per se are not a big deal to replace, but sometimes you can't find an exact original replacement (and in the case of certain vintage guitars, TP's can be very expensive). Originally Posted by moejo313
There are zillion threads here about these. Some people love 'em, some don't. The form factor is great. Build quality is great. Feedback is an issue with all archtops, and I doubt this model is worse than the others on your list. Tone is quite bright for an electric archtop, In the right hands, this can be a good thing (but not in my hands). (carved spruce top, lam maple back and sides, 16" body, 25" scale 1 set-in humbucker) Originally Posted by moejo313
I'd add the Godin 5th Ave Kingpin II to the list (laminated cherry top, back and sides, 16" body, 2 set-in P90s; they also make one with humbuckers). Cheaper than all of the above, but at least equivalent in build quality, with a great sound. Probably also worth looking at some of the other Ibanez archtops. With the LGB30, you're paying a bit of a premium for the Benson name, and some of their cheaper models are identical in terms of quality-level (and might sound better to you).
But ultimately, it's difficult to make (or interpret) specific recommendations without knowing what you really want in terms of a guitar. So, before getting to specifics, I think I think it pays to gain some understanding of the main construction elements in an archtop, how they affect comfort, playability, and tone, and which ones you actually prefer. Consider:
- Body size and depth
- Scale length
- Neck profile
- Top wood
- Whether the top is laminated, carved solid, or pressed solid
- Pickup attachment (i.e.,. set-in or floating).
Each item on your list is a different combination of these elements, so none of these guitars is really directly comparable to another. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to figure out your preferences other than trying a bunch of guitars. What you hear in youtube demos is often VERY different from how these instruments sound in reality. If you held my feet to the fire and made me pick one from your list, I'd probably go for the Eastman T49, but given a similar budget about a year and half ago, I wound up with none of the above.
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I appreciate the super thorough response, I'll check out the Godins for sure! Most likely will look at the humbucker options since I've seen mixed reviews on the noisiness of p90s;never tried them myself but I had sudden sensorineural hearing loss about 10 years back so buzz/hum really bothers my functioning ear. Also appreciate the insight on the brightness of some of these models, definitely not my cup of tea either.
Originally Posted by John A.
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Sylvain Luc isn't the only top pro using those. Also Ibanez, Gretsch, Comins. Eastman seem like they're getting out of archtops. Made in Japan and affordable : Seventy-Seven, Kingsnake, Archtop Tribute.
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The D'A has pretty hefty neck "shoulders." I would think (but don't know) that the Ibanez neck would be slimmer in the shoulders.
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Not yet named: Gretsch G100 Synchromatic. Made by Samick in Korea apparently, not China. No idea how they are; has a rather narrow nut, and parallel bracing.
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Seventy-sevens are great (I have one), but I don't think you can find one of the MIJ ones new (and if you can, it'll be more like $2.5-3k than $1.k-8k). The Comins GCS-16 is a really nice guitar, too, but new ones are ~$2400 (OP is only looking at new instruments). Looking at the Eastman site, it looks like they've pared the line-up down, but are still making some. But overall, there are not really that many new archtops being made these days, period. Used is always a risk, but willingness to take that risk opens the supply of candidates a lot. Originally Posted by m_d
Last edited by John A.; 04-12-2022 at 03:36 PM.
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I had a peerless Monarch that was an absolutely fantastic instrument. The neck was ridiculously stable and played perfectly. Certainly worth checking out.
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Your list has guitars with different scale lengths and body sizes. These are things you can't change, so it makes sense to figure out what size/scales is going to be comfortable and narrow your search that way. There can be other, more subtle, differences in construction that affect the ergonomics of the instrument and how the instrument fits the player's body, so there's no substitute to trying them out or, at least, buying with a return privilege.
At the risk of re-plowing the same old ground, I cringe a bit at the idea of "jazzbox". Great jazz has been played on every kind of guitar. And, I think a lot of us would be challenged to identify whether a recording was made with one type vs another. Well, depending on the sound. I think a lot of us would be able to identify a Wes sound as coming from a hollow body archtop. I think it might be harder to distinguish a 175 from a Les Paul, on single notes.
And, if you haven't spent a lot of time with archtops, don't underestimate the issue of feedback. It's not just full-howl. It's also the possibility of a more subtle reinforcement of low frequencies that lead to a muddy sound. I know that many players figure it out and do fine, but I never was able to do that. I'd be going along fine and then, suddenly, the band would get louder, or I'd change the angle to the amp and the guitar would start to vibrate and howl. Awful. That said, I stopped trying before I learned about solutions like Doug's Plugs. But, it always seemed to me that damping the carved top that you just paid extra for, might not make sense. And, the opposite -- I love the sound that some players get with carved top archtops. And just as often, I've heard archtop players sound muddy or plinky.
I recall one well known player, a Benedetto artist with a new Benedetto archtop -- struggling with feedback during a show. I later heard the same player with the same guitar not have a problem with feedback. I don't know what he did differently. I'm just pointing out that it's an issue.
Another thing about archtops is that you have to get your right arm over the top. If the guitar is too big for the player that can get uncomfortable after a time. I've seen that underestimated.
Bottom Line: RETURN PRIVILEGE.
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You're right. Might be a bit less in Europe. Archtop Tribute have models around $1.500 though. Also MIJ Ibanezes are priced in Europe around $2.000. Same issue as always, there's little chance of seeing those in stores unless you travel to Japan. Originally Posted by John A.
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This reminded me: Originally Posted by m_d
DooDad Lucille - See Through Purple Instruments Guitars
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Had an LGB30 for a year or so. It was back in about 2013? No tail piece issues.
nice warm sound, easy to play. As stated not the greatest acoustic in the jazz world but certainly clear enough for couch practice. The ‘Super 58 Customs’ are not MIJ but sounded fine.
Ibanez has a neck you either love or hate. Actually if you measure its not that much thinner than say a Gibson Tal Farlow (‘98) but does feel faster/thinner. I prefer by far the feel of the Ibanez neck, and cant for the life of me get why people like the baseball bat necks on so many current archtops.
Vanilla, chocolate, or whichever… whatev you like.
Good luck!)))
jk
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Plenty of 400 year old violins with varnish. Used Eastman would be your best bet.
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Eastman T49d/v: That's the one I'd be looking for. Tried a couple single p/u versions of this guitar. One really nice, another less so. Like every guitar, seems to be a lot of variation from one example to another. IMO, worth the trouble with these varnished Eastmans. I tried 3 or 4 of the T64V. Last one was the charm. Beautiful sound and a great feel. I'm guessing the finish is part of why that is.
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Actually not that many from 1620 (that's early even for Amati violins), but enough to prove your point that varnish can survive that long - if applied by a master builder to a master build that's always been pampered Originally Posted by whiskey02
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I don't know were in VA you live, but if yo don't mind taking a drive to NJ you may want to check out Guitars 'n Jazz - 400 Archtops in stock - choose don't settle
Unless things have changed they seem to have quite an inventory that you can check out. I purchase my TI strings from them. But I like window shopping the guitars online too
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Thanks for the input guys, so many options and pieces of info. I guess i didn’t give enough weight to the potential feedback issue as i should have, definitely something to think about. Is this applicable to everything with a F hole or are semis immune to the issue?
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Feedback is not that big of a problem unless you're playing pretty loud. Semis are less of a problem than hollow bodies, but maybe a bit more than solid bodies (probably depends on the specific guitars in question). Originally Posted by moejo313
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Ted Nugent played Byrdland's plugged into Marshall full stacks. The feedback issue is overrated.
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Some players aren't troubled by the feedback issue. Ted Nugent used it as part of his style. I read that he'd have a mental map of the stage indicating where and how the guitar would feedback.
Thin guitars like the 335 have a solid block inside and they aren't prone to feedback, in my experience. But, the 330 looks about the same from the outside and doesn't have the internal block. Rather, it's a fully hollow guitar and will feedback like one.
The more lively the top, meaning, the better it would be unamplified, the more prone to feedback. Some players seem to manage without difficulty. I couldn't. One of two things would happen. Lower frequencies would be emphasized in an annoying way, without howl. Or, the guitar would suddenly seem to come alive (think that scene in Frankenstein with the good lightning hit) and start to howl like a pack of werewolves.
I've heard other jazz players say the same thing -- they avoid full body archtops because of feedback. But, not everybody.
The last time I dealt with it was with a nylon Godin Multiac. It's a thin body, but very lively. About as loud as a full body classical, or close. It would feedback at a level you could talk over in a normal voice, if facing the amp. So, I didn't face the amp, but that didn't help enough. Eventually, I stuffed the body with foam. Unamplified the guitar was muffled noticeably. Amplified, it sounded pretty much the same as before. No more feedback.
Perhaps Reg will weigh in on this. He plays a full body archtop and I've heard him get pretty loud without any feedback. He sounds great every time, as good as I've heard anybody sound.
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