Why do vintage jazz guitars often show wear on the bass side upper bout?

[mascis2000]

I see a some old vintage jazz guitars from the 40s and 50s showing finish wear on the bass side upper bout just above the neck. Including my own 50s Epiphone Zephyr Regent.

I'm curious why is this? The only thing I can think of is that it's due to a particular way players strummed the guitar, maybe in old big band line ups or something. But what type of playing technique would cause wear like that?

Can anyone here enlighten me?

[AllanAllen]

Probably some over zealous Freddie Green chunking.

[Filmosound 621]

this is thumb-wear from over-enthusiastic fingerstyle playing at the end of the neck.




or maybe a Hamster got trapped in the case at one point of the guitars Life,
got intoxicated from the pick-guard off-gasing, started to dance and ...

maybe.

[Litterick]

Cuff links.

[citizenk74]

Tortiseshell picks and plenty of forearm swing. I have a couple of '30s archtops with more scuffing than that. Prior to amplification, there was very little caressing of the strings. You used heavy strings, hit 'em hard and often, and hoped to be felt, if not heard.

[Jabberwocky]

That comes from a lifetime of playing ES-175Ds. The pickup toggle is in that position and old habits, you know, die with the cock doing a stiffie.

[wintermoon]

no clue how that wear got on that Switchmaster.
it's too far up on the bass bout for cufflink damage and too far from the fingerboard for strumming damage.
but that person has pretty acidic sweat judging by the arm wear near the f hole

[RJVB]

Maybe those guitars were owned by people who spent more time waiting to play than actually playing, resting their left and possibly right hands on the guitar's left shoulder? I know I tend to do just that.

You'd expect to see some wear too on the side walls, just as you often see on the right shoulder of violins.

[Dennis D]

.........Those faded sections reminded me of this close-up of Jim Hall's 175....

........I could see the right arm pit wear in that lower bout, but could that top wear have been from a strap ???

[wintermoon]

I'm thinking thumb/hand wear from playing high on the neck

[WilliamScott]

A lot of contact there.

[Jim Soloway]

Because the old fashioned straps that attached to the peg head made that the common playing position when playing sitting down..

[pcjazz]

Because the old fashioned straps that attached to the peg head made that the common playing position when playing sitting down..

And in that position there is no acoustic dampening from contact with the player's body.

[rpjazzguitar]

I see a some old vintage jazz guitars from the 40s and 50s showing finish wear on the bass side upper bout just above the neck. Including my own 50s Epiphone Zephyr Regent.

I'm curious why is this? The only thing I can think of is that it's due to a particular way players strummed the guitar, maybe in old big band line ups or something. But what type of playing technique would cause wear like that?

Can anyone here enlighten me?

Spilling something on it thought to be polish?

Storing the strap in the case right there?

[Jim Soloway]

And in that position there is no acoustic dampening from contact with the player's body.

I've been playing in pretty much that position for my entire life.

[Dave24309]

There is a u-tube video of Merv Griffin "auditioning" Jim Hall for his TV band. When Merv walks up, you can see Hall holding his guitar in that worn spot. If you look close, you can see the beginning of the wear.

[Litterick]

This was discussed in the 2018 thread Jim Hall's Gibson ES-175 Up Close!, in which Hall was reported as having said he caused the wear by placing his hands on the guitar and resting his chin on them.

[Drumbler]

I see a some old vintage jazz guitars from the 40s and 50s showing finish wear on the bass side upper bout just above the neck. Including my own 50s Epiphone Zephyr Regent.

I'm curious why is this? The only thing I can think of is that it's due to a particular way players strummed the guitar, maybe in old big band line ups or something. But what type of playing technique would cause wear like that?

Can anyone here enlighten me?

That bottom pic looks like it was relic-ed.

[RJVB]

And in that position there is no acoustic dampening from contact with the player's body.

Not from the body maybe, but it looks like the contact area with the right leg must be bigger and/or more on a vibrating part, and you'll probably be damping the top with your picking arm a lot more often.
If you hold the guitar that way with a strap attached to its left shoulder that could indeed cause wear like this (is there wear to the binding too?) :


Guess I should try it sometime. So far I've only managed to play anything slightly more difficult in classical position; I can't tell from those photos is this "lazy" position is more or even less ergonomical for the left hand than the standard right-leg "folk" position...

Hall was reported as having said he caused the wear by placing his hands on the guitar and resting his chin on them.

Hah, I thought of that too but thought the chin could only rest on the guitar's side.

[JCat]

drool
intransitive verb

1 a: to secrete saliva in anticipation of food
// The dog hears the bell and begins to drool.

b: to let saliva dribble from the mouth : DRIVEL sense 2
saliva : a slightly alkaline secretion of water, mucin, protein, salts, and often a starch-splitting enzyme (such as ptyalin), lubricates ingested food, and often begins the breakdown of starches.
// a drooling baby

2: to make an effusive show of pleasure or often envious or covetous appreciation
// drooling over his new guitar

3: to talk nonsense

[Ukena]

Because the old fashioned straps that attached to the peg head made that the common playing position when playing sitting down..

James Chirillo says that Freddie Green would sometimes lay the guitar almost flat in his lap, to find the sweet spot where his guitar's sound would carry best (sound bouncing off a low ceiling?).

He talks about it starting at 3:09:

[mr. beaumont]

Maybe those guitars were owned by people who spent more time waiting to play than actually playing, resting their left and possibly right hands on the guitar's left shoulder? I know I tend to do just that.

You'd expect to see some wear too on the side walls, just as you often see on the right shoulder of violins.

Funny, I came here to say that. Can't be too crazy if two of us thought it.




I always thought the upper bout wear on Jim Hall's 175 was interesting...resting his hand there during segments on the Merv Griffin show?


EDIT: Lol, RJVB was also thinking about this apparently...I should have scrolled through the whole thread.

[yebdox]

Anyone know who owns Jim’s guitar now?

[burchyk]

James Chirillo says that Freddie Green would sometimes lay the guitar almost flat in his lap, to find the sweet spot where his guitar's sound would carry best (sound bouncing off a low ceiling?).

He talks about it starting at 3:09:

1/4" at 12th fret?? ouchhh

[Joe Dampt]

Hey there! The wear on the bass side upper bout of vintage jazz guitars, like your 50s Epiphone Zephyr Regent, is likely due to the strumming techniques of the time. Rhythm guitarists in big bands often used vigorous wrist-based strumming, which caused their hands to frequently brush against the guitar in that area. Combined with the less durable finishes used back then, this led to the wear patterns you see. I’ve been working for 6 years at Joe’s Vintage Guitars, so I can assure you that.