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Here's the situation:
- I hate driving, I don't own a car. I use my bike, public transportation and car sharing if I must drive – which often was because I had to bring an amp.
- Since joining a band using in-ear in 2020 I used only a little preamp (Tech 21 fly rig) and DI to mixing desk.
- I since found out while with the in ears it's OK it sounds peretty good through a wedge monitor.
- Due to the corona-situation I have my amps (Fender Vibrolux and Blues jr.) at home in my music room, so I can compare the tones through the amps with the preamp through my studio monitors – I like the latter better.
- When I played out I often experienced that the amp is either to loud (for the waiters or the tech – sometimes when I bring the vibrolux to small venues they even tel me to turn down before I switched it on ;-) as they assumed it would be loud because of the size) or too quiet (to hear myself properly in a loud band) – with my preamp the volume is determined by the PA which should be appropriate for the venue anyway. And with the Tech21 I can set the tone (I like just a hint of saturation so it does not sound like smooth jazz). I have an active wedge if I need to amplify myself for the very small gigs.
- Techs love the DI solution as they do not have to deal with loud amp sounds from the stage. I love the utility – I can basically bring everything I need (guitar, cables, preamp, music) in one gig bag.
Taking all this into account I wonder why I still keep the amps. I'm not sure if I'll ever use these again and they take a lot of space in my small music room. I don't want to put them in the basement as this has been flooded twice already – not save.
What do you think?
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01-29-2022 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by guavajelly
buy another tube amp, one that you can enjoy at home.
one that gives warmth and dynamics in a way that only good vintage tube amps can.
something built prior to 1955, with octal pre-amp tubes, that makes all the difference.
happy to help you.
or buy another guitar, a vintage acoustic archtop this time.
another vintage guitar is a good thing.
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A ZT Lunchbox would fit nicely on a rear luggage rack if you needed an on-stage amp (I know for a fact that a Micro Cube does) and I believe the Tech 21 sounds pretty good through that. Sell the other amps if they're taking up space. Simple.
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I think you've already made your decision. Originally Posted by guavajelly
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Nostalgia is an anchor that can hold you back. If you love having a tube amp, keep one because it makes you happy. But short of that, the big question is what you need. Ask yourself some questions. You’ve been with the same band for over a year. Do you play any gigs except with that unit? Does this band seem like a long term association for you? Do you have a backup unit or plan if your Tech21 fails on a gig? Etc.
You could sell both tube amps for enough to buy a very nice small and powerful amp like a Henriksen, Quilter, or DV Mark with a good DI out and enough power to hang with any band short of Tower of Power (and maybe even with them). The Blu 6 and Bud 6 are very small combos. Or you could get a tiny class D head and a good 6” or 8” speaker like a Toob. Carry the head in your gig bag as a preamp or spare, and use the speaker at home and on future gigs in venues or bands with no house system.
I’d say you can always buy another amp in the future if you need one, but finding exactly what you want is no longer that easy. So planning ahead makes more sense now than ever before. And FWIW, I’ve sold all my tube amps (Boogie, Vibrolux, etc) and speaker cabs over 10”. I play twice a week at a local club with a serious backline. I have a Little Jazz at home, plus an Elf and a DV Mark EG250 to drive a light 10” cab and an even lighter 8 (both with neos). If the club closes (or I get replaced) I have what I need for gigging elsewhere. And I bought a Quilter Microblock used from a forum member to carry as a backup.
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Sell the dinosaurs and buy any of the Fishman amps. You will have money left over.
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When I read the thread title I thought, “what?! This guy’s nuts!”
but after reading your reasons…yeah probably should!
although I vote like the other guy, get a super righteous old tube amp that you love just to dig at home.Last edited by 6v6ster; 01-29-2022 at 11:17 PM.
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Most of these thoughts had also occurred to me. I only have one though, my PRRI, so I may as well hang onto it as it is such a wonderful practice and recording amp. I’m not sure if I even like the amp that much live. Originally Posted by guavajelly
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The thing is .. In the current supply crisis climate .. If you get rid of it then who knows when you can get a new one ...
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I think you need to send me the Vibrolux for a impartial evaluation.
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In my experience, the key to enjoying an amp live is to use it as a personal monitor - that is, aim it at your head - and send a mic'ed signal to FOH, if present. Lacking that set-up, put the amp on a stool or a tall chair. Anything to get it nearer the ears and further from the ankles, which have the aural sensitivity of the average Yoohootube commenter. That said, I used a RockMan/RockModule set-up for years, with good results, I simply missed hearing the sound coming off the speaker(s), and I went to a system that slanted the amp toward my head either in front of me (personal monitor) or behind me (in this situation the amp was somewhat blocked by my body for general playing. I could manipulate the amount of sound amplified by FOH by moving away from my vocal mic, which would then pick up some of the guitar signal, with the amps more diffused sound reflected off the ceiling/walls. Crude, but effective. Worked for me, but we were playing smallish rooms. Intimate y'might say. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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You have developed a set-up that works for you. I would advise carrying a second Tech 21 (always have a backup) and enjoying your logistical flexibility. The problem with amps is not their volume, per se (IMHO); but rather, their beaminess, which requires further amplification to even out. That is why I used amps as personal monitors in my later gigging days. I was almost never asked to turn down. I was frequently asked to turn up, usually by the drummer, for whom I simply turned my set-up more in his/her direction. Originally Posted by guavajelly
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I discovered long ago that pointing my amp backwards where there’s a wall behind or next to the staging area eliminates all beaming. The sound diffuses widely because it’s reflected by the wall. This lets the drummer and bass player (who are almost always at the rear of the playing area) hear me well, as do I. Hanging a mic from the cabinet handle between the speaker and the wall gives the house sound guy a pure guitar signal with no bleed from other instruments. Originally Posted by citizenk74
The problem with amps is not their volume, per se (IMHO); but rather, their beaminess, which requires further amplification to even out. That is why I used amps as personal monitors in my later gigging days. I was almost never asked to turn down. I was frequently asked to turn up, usually by the drummer, for whom I simply turned my set-up more in his/her direction.
Angling the cab a bit to either side fine tunes the guitar’s stage level, and moving it closer to the wall can boost bass by as much as 10 dB if you want that. Even without sound reinforcement, the backwards amp trick gives better guitar sound dispersion through a room than pointing it forward and living with a hotspot in the beam and irregular SPL elsewhere.
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One hundred percent! My method, precisely! Bravo! I used an Sm-57 for mic duties, and my own tilting rig, a bit of a Rube Goldberg gizmo, but portable and cost effective. There wereC-clamps involved. Said device, in retirement, works as a plant stand for some of Mrs. k's little green oxygen-makers.* Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
* Much like every guitar stool I've ever had.
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Thanks for the kind advice (though some are puzzling – the answer to the question of selling the amps is getting another amp)?.
For gigs with PA I used the amps as most of you described anyway – as a personal monitor: tilted, side of the stage, not facing the audience. For some smaller gigs when the amps get not ampified by front of house I had them behind me – tilted or on a chair, table, sometimes even on the piano – you name it.
I had zero problems getting out of them what they are intended to do: Amplifying the tone of my guitar while adding a little tube magic like saturation, compression.
But the little preamp does that as well or better. I have no problem hearing myself from a (decent) wedge or in-ears and I already own a little active speaker that I can use as an amplifier/monitor when there isn't a PA.
That doesn't only apply to the current bands but to all the bands I played in the last couple years (Soul, Jazz, Funk, Blues). On one occasion I was able to A/B the fly rig with my Vibrolux during soundcheck and voted for the little preamp > DI > PA.
Our hammond player uses a similar setup: a digital hammond into an active monitor and he sounds good. Frees us from schlepping a real old heavy B3 – though we enjoy it very much if a club has one ready to use.
At this point I feel like just keeping the amp for sentimental reasons. I don't want to hoard things that I'm not using anymore. If anyone is interested: It's a "Custom" Vibrolux Reverb (an amp tech got rid of most of the hiss for me by using selected tubes) and a Blues jr. II. You can check them out in Köln (Cologne, Germany).
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^^ Originally Posted by marcwhy
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In my case the problem with loudness was sometimes when I was invited as singer / lead guitarist for a blues combo and they told me "sure, the blues jr. is more than you need" and it wasn't as these guys played so loud. On this occasion I wished I had brought my fly rig and plugged it into their 2000 watts PA instead struggling to get heard. Originally Posted by citizenk74
With the vibrolux OTOH the problem was more psychological. Waiters, club owners and sound techs were expecting it to be too loud before I even plugged it in. At one point in my musical life I used to turn it up, but fortunately (for the audience and my ears) that period was short (but glorious on outdoor gigs on big stages – what a tone for blues!). If I had to play with an amp now I would bring the Vibrolux (cause it's the best I own) and just turn down and IF I needed overdrive would use a pedal. But the fly rig does all that and some ...
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You are almost at the point of solving your own loudness issue. Yes, you should turn your amp down so that it is not out of balance with the rest of the band, and also not offensive to the audience. The secret to a great stage tone however, begins with turning your GUITAR volume down after setting your amp volume. Originally Posted by guavajelly
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I have no loudness problem – I know where the volume knob is – on the amp and on the guitar. Sometime when bringing the tiny blues jr. I had a headroom problem. Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
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I'm not sure what the answer is for Guavajelly. I play at home and use a Super Champ XD on the clean channel. I like the tone a lot with a pinch of Reverb. I just replaced the 3 tubes it takes and had never messed with tubes before. 2- 6V6 and a 12ax7. Super easy and good to go. While the SC was down, I finally used my little battery powered Boss Katana mini. Oh my gosh, it did a great job and has great tone for home use. I bought to play while camping in our trailer. I just thought I would mention the in case someone here traveled around and needed something to amplify their guitar and could fit in anything.
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I haven't gigged in forever, but I recently picked up a Milkman "The Amp" combo, I also have a vintage Princeton Reverb, I really don't have space for both, but I can't get rid of either, the Milkman is so light and sounds really nice (especially after I changed the preamp tube out) and the Princeton, while problematic as far as upkeep, just has such nice tone... I moved to a smaller NYC apartment recently, and I'm considering going down to one, however if i ever gig again, the Milkman is so nice... great cleans, light af and versatile
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Originally Posted by PS_Jazz
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