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16 inch L-5's are rare, particularly the dot neck ones (which are quite playable. The chunky V necks on the Block neck L-5's are...Challenging). So the real deal is quite expensive. Stuff that is both in deamand and rare always is. You can buy a Chinese made Loar repro for about two grand or get an American/European made repro for about 10 grand (less money if the luthier is unknown perhaps).
If you have really deep pockets, for 50K plus, you can get a Loar signed L-5 (if you can find one for sale).
My experience is that the dot neck L-5's have a sweeter tone than either the block neck 16 inch L-5's or the 17 inch L-5's that followed (all of those later guitars were made at a time when volume was more important than anything else). Some other alternatives to consider are:
20's L-4's (These can sound as sweet as the L-5's, but pickup clearance can be an issue)
D'Angelico Style A's and B's (These guitars, while 17 inch lower bout have that sweet tone and can be had in the 15 K range)
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01-22-2022 11:38 AM
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Cranmer guitars have an interesting take; looks like a a Loar era L5 copy from the front but a number of very modern features on closer inspection, including a sound port, a solid bridge with adjustments made from the neck (like Ken Parker’s designs.).
Currently very reasonably priced (£4K) and I’d love to try one.
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Don’t forget about late 20s L-10s! They were painted black but are otherwise just as great as an L-5. I think those have gone up in value significantly though and are hard to find. A friend of mine consigned one recently at TR Crandall and it sold before it even made it to the website.
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The whole point of optimising of getting the performance for the affordable amount is all there is to the challenge. In Europe, where I live, there is not a real 20s/30s Gibson L5 below the 16,5 K Euro to be found. Worldwide, it looks as if 25K Euro is the bottom for getting any 30s L5 guitar at my front door. Any 20s L5 is 30K Euro or way more My Sumi S5 cost me about 5K all in, and I still have not seen a better bargain in terms of value for money. There is value to be found outside the USA as well. German, Japan, Sweden and France build archtopscan be as great as well.
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What is the neck like on the Sumi?
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George Gruhn’s L-10 is better than any L-5 I’ve played in my opinion. It has it all, tone, volume, comfortable to play. I tried to get him to part with it. Maybe I should have tried harder.
Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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That is a firm C shape neck, nut width about 42/43 mm Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Is that the one he made a video about? He was practically in tears! Nice to see an old salt like that still getting emotional about guitars! Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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I think the video is with his Loar L-5. I played both. I much preferred the L-10. He favors the Loar. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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Stringswinger: can you please elaborate on your experience with ‘20’s L-4s? I’m curious about those two. ThatRhythmMan’s comments Originally Posted by Stringswinger
about period L-10s, are a good reminder.
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If (old) guitars are anything like (old) violins, there's one thing a new one has that no old guitar can beat it on: smell
I've had the opportunity to hear a stellar player play both the Storioni he had at the time (interestingly a Guarneri copy), and my own (master-grade, IMHO) Bolink that's about 200 years younger. I have private recordings of the latter and I'm confident I wouldn't be able to tell which violin was being played outside of a direct comparison.
That Storioni had been modernised in the early 19t century, and then converted back to period standards, something that must have left imprints.
Anyway, no one has mentioned the L50 until now. I've been reading very positive things about them, and the recordings I've listened to on YT back that up. Those currently go for about the price of a 2nd hand Eastman.
BTW, the 20s Loar L5s had a Virzi inside, is there any builder who's included one? I understand they were tricky to get right, but with modern technology that should be easier, no?
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I once owned a ES175 that smelled like having been in all smoky bars around the world at least twice. It took me about 2 years of putting odor bags though the f holes and storing the guitar in the smallest room in the house with candles to get the smell out of the guitar. The case was even worse. No way to get the smell out or reduced to an acceptable level. The guitar itself was great..so, smell is not always desireable. Originally Posted by RJVB
If (old) guitars are anything like (old) violins, there's one thing a new one has that no old guitar can beat it on: smell
Anyway, no one has mentioned the L50 until now. I've been reading very positive things about them, and the recordings I've listened to on YT back that up. Those currently go for about the price of a 2nd hand Eastman.
BTW, the 20s Loar L5s had a Virzi inside, is there any builder who's included one? I understand they were tricky to get right, but with modern technology that should be easier, no?
The L50 is great. A lot of them have the fretboard allmost flush with the top. Not much pickups will fit underneath the strings. ( I play in loud bigbands)
I do not know what a Virzi is. But my Sumi S5 is likely to have a spring hung disk inside, At a very few certain individual single notes I hear a spring kind of sound. I do not have an endoscope to look inside yet. I am curious after the inside looks. I have to get an endoscope soon and look at the bracing en other things...
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I have played some incredible sounding 20's L-4's. but they are oval hole guitars with a not very elevated fretboard. Amplification would be an issue if you like a magnetic pickup sound, but I think there may solutions for that. The 20's L-4's that I have played had full C profile necks that were comfortable to me. All of the 30's L-4's that I have played had the large V necks which I do not like. Originally Posted by daverepair
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The "Virzi Sound Producer" is something that by its description evokes the internal resonator that the old Selmer models had. I have no idea what it looks like, wikipedia never heard of it. Originally Posted by hotpepper01
No need for an endoscope to look inside an f-hole archtop; a small mirror on a thin rod will do.
EDIT: the link to the Sumi S5 you posted is a vendor site, doesn't the builder have a site?
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Virzi is quite different from Selmer-style resonator (which I have on my Dunn ‘Mystery Pacific’). Description here:Mandolin Glossary - Virzi Tone Producer
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Very good to know about the '20's oval holes, I'm also interested in those. Mounting a magnetic pickup would not be an issue for me(I wouldn't want one). So, for example, a '24 L-4 might have the desirable qualities you mention? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I think Gibson made a lot of changes during those years. I would say each year should be evaluated on it's own merits, but the ones that I have played from the late 20's that, while not as loud as the two 28 L-5's that I have played, had that sweet acoustic archtop tone in spades. The one thing I remember is that they had a 12 fret body join, like a classical guitar. Originally Posted by daverepair
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