Need advice with guitar damaged in transit...

[Caboverde]

Greetings and Happy New Year to all!

I recently purchased a rare archtop on eBay and received it this past week. The problem is that the guitar unfortunately suffered cracks on the side by the input jack during shipment. Despite the damage, it sounds great (has vintage DeArmonds). I'm guessing that it's worth fixing or seeing if it can be repaired. My question is: how should I handle this issue? I've tried looking at eBay's FAQ, but it has been no help. It only addresses full returns or partial refunds in the event of an item that was returned damaged. I would certainly expect a refund enough to cover damages, but what about loss of value resulting from the damages? Is the seller to make a claim with USPS/eBay/Paypal or am I to do this since I have the guitar?

[Filmosound 621]

I am sorry to see that, it looks evil.

how rare of an archtop is it ?

I would return it.

[Caboverde]

I am sorry to see that, it looks evil.

how rare of an archtop is it ?

I would return it.

Yeah, man. My heart dropped when I saw it. Supposedly, only about 50 were made. It was built by Frank Forcillo who worked for a short time with John D'Angelico, and later supplied him the laminated bodies for the electric models.

[marcwhy]

Ouch! That looks awful!

"Rare archtop on ebay," so it was fully insured when shipped??

[Caboverde]

Ouch! That looks awful!

"Rare archtop on ebay," so it was fully insured when shipped??

No clue whether the seller insured it or not--I sure hope so, for his sake!

[skykomishone]

Ouch is an understatement.
I shipped an electric piano in December to my son, and I went to the mail store and asked for 'fragile' or 'handle with care' stickers for the crate I built for it, the clerk told me No, do not put those on it, it makes it a target for abuse! I didn't, but they still managed to run a forklift fork through the crate and destroy it.

Sorry this happened to you. Good luck finding some accountability for the damage.

[Hammertone]

I take it that this is the very guitar in pre-damaged condition?

[Caboverde]

I take it that this is the very guitar in pre-damaged condition?

That's the one. The seller sent me pictures of the back and sides before shipping, and it was all fine.

Any sage advice if y'all were in my place?

[Caboverde]

Ouch is an understatement.
I shipped an electric piano in December to my son, and I went to the mail store and asked for 'fragile' or 'handle with care' stickers for the crate I built for it, the clerk told me No, do not put those on it, it makes it a target for abuse! I didn't, but they still managed to run a forklift fork through the crate and destroy it.

Sorry this happened to you. Good luck finding some accountability for the damage.

The box this guitar was shipped in had "fragile" stickers on several spots. Perhaps, the seller should have left them off! Sorry to hear about the keyboard. Did the shipping company pay to replace or repair it?

[vintagelove]

I'd return it unfortunately. Seller should have made it bulletproof before shipping.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It took a lot of energy to do that much visible damage to the body. There’s almost certainly more damage inside, eg loose or cracked bracing / kerfing / etc. I have no idea what it’s worth or how great a guitar it is. But unless it’s an object of your affection and you’re willing to go the distance with a good luthier (at what could turn out to be a cost equal to or perhaps even greater than its market value), I’d return it.

What a shame! It’s a great piece and I can see why you bought it. I’m really sorry this happened.

[Caboverde]

Thanks so much for the replays, all. I think the consensus is quite clear, and sending it back is the most reasonable thing to do in this case.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Thanks so much for the replays, all. I think the consensus is quite clear, and sending it back is the most reasonable thing to do in this case.

I didn’t know anything about Forcillo, so I just Googled him. I came across this eBay listing for what appears to be the same guitar, complete with mismatched knobs. It clearly says, “There has been a minor professional restoration done around the input jack area” and does not include a picture of that area. The depiction of it as a minor professional restoration may have been in error on both counts.

[Caboverde]

I didn’t know anything about Forcillo, so I just Googled him. I came across this eBay listing for what appears to be the same guitar, complete with mismatched knobs. It clearly says, “There has been a minor professional restoration done around the input jack area” and does not include a picture of that area. The depiction of it as a minor professional restoration may have been in error on both counts.

Yup--that's the listing I won. I contacted the seller and he sent me pictures of that area; it only showed minor stress cracks.

[skiboyny]

Was this guitar shipped in a hard case?

[Caboverde]

Was this guitar shipped in a hard case?

Nope! The seller shipped it in a nylon gigbag within a cardboard box. Not my idea of a securely packaged guitar, but I've heard of worse packing with better outcomes...go figure

[6v6ster]

Ugh! What a heartbreaker.
I would never ship a guitar in a soft case the shipper was just begging for a return.

send it back. You could do a partial refund and keep but there is no way to make up for the loss of the value, since it’s now damaged.

Do feel bad for you, that just stinks.

c’mon shippers, wrap them up to survive a direct nuclear blast!

[skiboyny]

Nope! The seller shipped it in a nylon gigbag within a cardboard box. Not my idea of a securely packaged guitar, but I've heard of worse packing with better outcomes...go figure

I thought that was what I was seeing. I would think it will be hard to get a insurance claim honored shipped like that. Maybe if it was double boxed with packing in between but I don't think I'm seeing that either. It's kind of the sellers problem and I think I would leave it that way. Sad to see, but almost predictable.

[FredH]

Just reading this and I concur with the others to send it back. It unfortunately is the seller's problem to resolve. Sorry this has happened to you and the seller.

[2bornot2bop]

1) Inform the seller of the damaged shipment and send him photos.

2) It’s the sellers responsibility to contact the shipper and inform them of the damage. They in turn will generally send someone out to your place to inspect the damage.

3) You should expect a refund after the seller receives the shipment back. It’s a very simple process, however time consuming.

4) If you paid via PayPal you’ve zero worries about a complete refund. I assume you paid via PayPal?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Yup--that's the listing I won. I contacted the seller and he sent me pictures of that area; it only showed minor stress cracks.

I don't think those are minor stress cracks and I don't think that's new damage. You can see what appear to be faint lines left despite the attempted repair. They're exactly where the fracture lines are now (and probably were before). Working with contrast and brightness helps bring this out, and you can see them extending in the other direction from the jack as well.



I think that what you're seeing now is the original damage, perhaps extended some by whatever force caused it to reopen. The ends of the pieces of the side that were pushed in suffered what's called a "green stick fracture" in orthopedics. There was enough damage to the wood to allow it to be pushed inward when the breaks occured, but sufficient fibers remained intact to hold it together so it didn't come out. When the pushed-in pieces were pulled back out, the surface at the far ends was still intact, and the structural damage was inside. You can probably still see it if you look in there with a mirror.

To cause that kind of damage originally, I suspect the guitar was either dropped hard directly on the jack (which would be quite a feat) or there was a cord plugged into it when it was dropped / hit / whatever. Or a large object (eg the size of a brick) could have smacked the side close enough to the jack so that the wood split through the jack hole as well as along the long axes. It might even have been banged into a table or similar large object while being carried.

Even if the shipping box was intact, it was likely dropped or knocked hard enough to reopen a serious wound that was badly repaired.

[jazzkritter]

“jack hole“

Good description of the seller, NeverShould!

Caboverde I add my sorries to you also, but darn I’m adding a ton of anger towards that seller.

[Caboverde]

1) Inform the seller of the damaged shipment and send him photos.

2) It’s the sellers responsibility to contact the shipper and inform them of the damage. They in turn will generally send someone out to your place to inspect the damage.

3) You should expect a refund after the seller receives the shipment back. It’s a very simple process, however time consuming.

4) If you paid via PayPal you’ve zero worries about a complete refund. I assume you paid via PayPal?

Thanks for the info! This is quite helpful as I've never dealt with this sort of issue before. Thankfully, yes, I did pay via Paypal, and I also contacted the seller with pictures of the damage right after receiving the guitar.

[Caboverde]

I don't think those are minor stress cracks and I don't think that's new damage. You can see what appear to be faint lines left despite the attempted repair. They're exactly where the fracture lines are now (and probably were before). Working with contrast and brightness helps bring this out, and you can see them extending in the other direction from the jack as well.



I think that what you're seeing now is the original damage, perhaps extended some by whatever force caused it to reopen. The ends of the pieces of the side that were pushed in suffered what's called a "green stick fracture" in orthopedics. There was enough damage to the wood to allow it to be pushed inward when the breaks occured, but sufficient fibers remained intact to hold it together so it didn't come out. When the pushed-in pieces were pulled back out, the surface at the far ends was still intact, and the structural damage was inside. You can probably still see it if you look in there with a mirror.

To cause that kind of damage originally, I suspect the guitar was either dropped hard directly on the jack (which would be quite a feat) or there was a cord plugged into it when it was dropped / hit / whatever. Or a large object (eg the size of a brick) could have smacked the side close enough to the jack so that the wood split through the jack hole as well as along the long axes. It might even have been banged into a table or similar large object while being carried.

Even if the shipping box was intact, it was likely dropped or knocked hard enough to reopen a serious wound that was badly repaired.

That's some insightful forensics there! I see what you mean in terms of the extent of the previous (and poor?) repair. Since the guitar was in a cardboard box with no other padding besides the nylon bag, I don't expect it would have needed that much force to reopen or further spread the repaired cracks.

[Filmosound 621]

what does the shipping box looks like, damage wise ?

imprints of forklift tires ?