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My Yamaha acoustic guitar needs to be tuned nearly every time I pick it up, is this normal?
Is there something I can do to improve this?
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12-29-2021 12:07 PM
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I always check the tuning when I pickup a guitar for its first daily play. Always get a pleasant feeling if it’s in tune. If it’s not I can usually explain it because of temperature or humidity changes from the day before. If your guitar goes out of tune within a day of constant temperature and humidity then it’s time for a visit to a guitar technician.
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There is a YouTube video in which Wes complains about his L5 going out of tune all the time. IME tuning stability is one of the weakest features of archtops (and guitars in general). Small temperature and humidity variations can quickly affect the tuning, as can tight nut slots. The way the tuning is done can also have an effect. My theory is that when a string is retuned from sharp, the string stiffness prevents the string from fully unwrapping for awhile, and it gradually goes flatter. I think the way to do it is the way Johnny Smith recommended. Always start from flat, and give the strings a stretch before tuning up. If I accidentally tune a string sharp, I intentionally take it flat, and give the string a pull, then go back up. I'm no authority, but that's the way I do it, and it seems to help with tuning stability. But the guitars still go out of tune eventually. Supposedly locking tuners help, but I ain't going there.
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A LOT has to do with tuning keys and how strings were wrapped. Gotoh and other Fender style keys can be amazingly stable. I have a boat-neck Nash Strat that holds its tuning within a couple of cents from week to week.
My '38 Gibson L50 is incredibly stable. Great tuners.
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For archtops, the answer is often yes. Heat comes on and off in my office - where the two old guilds are. And weather changes outside. Sometimes no change during the day. Sometime I have to retune a second or third time.
A different story with solidbodies. Less tuning, assuming the tuning machines are quality.Last edited by mad dog; 12-29-2021 at 02:45 PM.
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I do exactly the same thing.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
However, About two and a half years ago I got a Earnie Ball Music Man guitar with and absolutely flat string path. The strings do not bend at all at the nut. This guitar does not need the "start low and tune up" approach. It is the easiest guitar I have to tune and I keep on telling myself that if I get another guitar, it should be this easy to tune.
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Depending on how far off it gets, but in general, sadly, yes..
Hollow guitars can go a few cents across all strings sharp or flat depending on the temp/humidity change.
Things that make it worse:
- String friction at the nut and/or the saddles.
- Saddles, bridges or nuts that don't positively stay in place.
- Unnecessarily sharp string angles like the G and D on a Gibson headstock.
- Unnecessary string winds or slipping at the tuning peg.
- Unstable neck joint.
- Bad intonation.
- Playing out of tune - easy to play a few cents sharp or flat.
- Strings that are still stretching.
- Playing in different position than tuning.
Sadly, the most stable are Floyd Rose setup or a headless solid bodies in my experience.
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Greentone's citing a very common cause, SophieB. Be more specific and you may identify the problem yourself, starting with how far out it is, eg a few cents or a half tone? Likely causes depend in part on the type of guitar in question. Solid body, flat top, arch top? Hard tail or trem? Is it only one string? Is it always the same string? Is it all strings? Are the affected strings consistently sharp or consistently flat, or does it vary? Is it the same after putting on new strings? Does it go away but then return again after a few days with fresh strings? Are your strings the proper gauge for your setup? Etc... Originally Posted by Greentone
Tuning stability requires a balance among many factors, most of which are under your control. Some guitars are less sensitive to temperature and humidity change than others, and you can't change that. But all guitars are affected to some degree, so even where and how you store the instrument can affect tuning stability. You're almost guaranteed to have to retune if you keep it in a closed closet with no air circulation at one temperature and humidity, then take it out of the case and immediately tune and play it in a room with different temp & humidity. I've seen many guitars hung on a wall where HVAC blows on or around it, which is terrible for them. Even in a case, leaving it near a window where direct sunlight comes and goes will wreak havoc on tuning (as well as the wood and the finish).
If your strings are heavier than the ones for which the guitar was set up, they can hang and later release at many points - nut slot, bridge saddle, tailpiece anchor point, end pin slot etc. If it's only one or two strings, and it's always the same one or two even after changing them, it's probably mechanical. If all your strings go out of tune, it could be either the guitar or the environment. Simply putting new strings on it may solve the problem if they're old, oxidized, etc. But weird things happen to guitars and their parts. The nuts on many guitars are being pushed slightly toward the treble side because of the angles of the strings toward the tuners - so nuts are usually held in place with a dab of glue. They can break free and slip a bit, then shifting to either side depending on which strings are tightened first. Bridge posts and supports can break or loosen, letting the saddle(s) shift as strings are tuned. Rarely, a top will crack or sink, or a brace will get loose and let the top flex under string pressure.
If the same string is always flat when you come back to it, something is slipping. The tuner itself could be loose. The nut slot could be a little bit too tight for the string, so the string hangs up while tuning, leaving more tension between the nut and the peg than in the rest of the string. The string then slips through the slot toward the peg, which can happen suddenly or gradually. If it's a flat top with end pins, the pin itself could be slipping out. This shouldn't affect tuning if the ball end is properly seated under the bridge - but I've seen guitars strung with the ball end against the tapered end of the peg, so the string rises as the peg slips out. And I've seen strings too large for the bridge slot and/or end pin slot, so they were not fully seated.
Don't wrap a string around the tuning post so many times that it's sitting on top of itself - all turns should sit against the post. You don't need more turns than it takes to push the string down to the bottom of the shaft before it rises toward the nut. Even crossing the wrapped string on itself can cause tuning problems, because both the outer wrap and the underlying string can shift from string tension and the compression it puts on the underlying wrap(s).
There's a lot more to it even than the above. A web search will reveal many other potential causes if the above doesn't help. Good luck!Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 12-29-2021 at 06:20 PM.
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Mine guitars pretty much stay in the house rarely ever leave I don't gig these days. Unless the weather is changing a lot they tend to stay pretty well in tune. Yesterday I picked up my Gibson Super 400 was dead on in tune and I would guess I have not played it in 4-5 days. They are less prone to staying in tune in the summer when really humid. I don't turn the air conditioner on much and the lowest I leave it is 79 degrees. Taking the guitar out when the A/C is not on after it has been then a bit more fluctuation in tuning. I would expect guitar to need some touch up getting in tune almost daily. That does not mean that the guitar is way out of tune or that it is not acceptably in tune for most things. I am just a nut I want the guitar to be as in tune as it can be every time I play it.
Joe Pass said once on a gig as he was tuning up before he played........."these guitars are supposed to come from the factory tuned but I better check."
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My Yamaha Pacifica 012 (cheapest Strat copy they make) stays perfectly in tune for days at a time. I may not even have to tweak it for an entire gig. It has replacement tuners, if that matters. The floating bridge is screwed down tight but not blocked.
OTOH, my Comins GCS-1 will barely make it through a song. I believe the problem is binding at the nut. I've sanded gently (not wanting to go too far) without improvement. One thing that helps is, before checking the tuning, I reach under the strings and stretch them all a little bit by pulling them upward, en masse. I think that unbinds whatever is sticking, although I may still have to tweak it a little. Eventually, I'll have a luthier look at it.
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Wow my archtops seem way more tuning stable than my solids, probably because I don’t bend strings on the archys.
once I learned how to wrap the string so it basically locks back on itself as it winds around the post, my guitars usually go days or weeks in tune.
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Winter in cold climate means heating systems and that almost always means lots of tuning. Other than carbon graphite guitars, changes of temperature and humidity play havoc with ever guitar I've ever owned.
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Btw. A fun problem. When temp changes, nylon and steel strings react differently. When it gets warmer, nylon goes... gosh. which one was it..
Um. no time to check now. But they go out of tune the opposite way. One string type goes higher, the other to lower pitch.
Why is it? Don't google before pondering first
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If you can get your guitar in tune send it to me and I'll send you mine.
Herb Ellis.
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I tune my L6-S once a week, just in case.
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Depends on all the things stated above, but sometimes it’s just something mysterious about a particular guitar.
I know a lot about guitars and setups but I’ve had a couple that, no matter what I did, they had to be tuned every time I picked them up. They were nice guitars but I sold them.
My 1936 Martin can go for a month without being played and be perfectly in tune when I return to it.
Really stretch out new strings and change them when you start to have problems. They do lose their ability to hold tuning after a while.
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Stringed instruments in general. It is not uncommon for Symphonic orchestras to have to retune between significant pieces or after an intermission.
Outdoor performances often meant discreet retunes between each piece, especially if it was humid.
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It is completely normal if temperature changes. In summer month morning my room temp is approx 22-23C in its daily peek in the room is 28-29C. This is almost a half note.
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Yes.
Gibson introduced the E-tuner system as a response to customers complaining that the guitar they bought on-line was out of tune at the time of unboxing. The noobs raged over Gibson not stretching the strings at the factory so that the customer would have to tune the brand new guitar!
Learning to play the guitar starts with learning how to tune. We then continue to practice the art of tuning every day for as long as we persist playing this instrument. Those really adamant about learning to play the guitar, will also have to learn how to replace strings, how to tweak the truss rod, the bridge and how to intonate. Those that didn't give up playing eventually learned to dress a nut. The most stubborn individuals will sooner or later learn to dress the frets...then, after a lifetime of playing we got guitars that stays in tune within reason, meaning I'm happy if I during a gig have to retune just once (which I do so fast it goes unnoticed).
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It depends on the thickness of the strings, the quality of the tuning machines and the number of hours you spend with the guitar.
I always tune my guitar before playing it.
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The Kluson Deluxe tuners on my old '65 Fender Stratocaster were very solid, stable tuners.
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I don't think the tuners are the problem on mine. The tuning goes sharp as often as it goes flat. It's not usually a huge change, but enough for me to hear it. Some guitars do go out more, and more often, than others. Strings also seem to make a difference. Chromes seem to stay in tune better than bronze, but I don't have them on the same guitars, so that might be coincidence. I did pull out my DeArmond 7-string SG copy the other day, after having it in the closet for two or three years without playing it, and it was in tune. Every string was just a little off of A440, but it was in tune with itself, close enough to be playable. Solid bodies seem much more stable than fully hollow. Older archtops seem to be more stable than newer ones, at least in my limited experience. My '53 Epi is very stable compared to my newer guitars. Perhaps the wood hardens and absorbs less moisture, but I haven't done any experiments, certainly none with any scientific validity or repeatability. I just tune as necessary and don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.
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How bad out of tune is it? During a show I usually have to adjust just a little bit a couple of times. Are the nut slots smooth?
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Some stay in tune better than others. FWIW I use nut sauce on the saddles and nuts and lock wrap when installing new strings.
Thank goodness for those little headstock tuners. I remember using pitch pipes, tuning forks and tuning to the piano player. I was not blessed with the best ear. Those tuners get me close enough to tweak the tuning with some success.
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I never heard of nut sauce, so I just Googled it. I wonder what’s in it - they don’t say. The claim made for it is fairly bold (and probably more than a little upsetting to their lawyer) - Originally Posted by 73Fender
“Your guitar is guaranteed to remain in tune.”
Has it made a difference for you?
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