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Which sounds better and why?
Comments appreciated!
I EQ'ed them (with the guitar's tone control) based on what sounded best at the time. I think the overall sound is very sensitive to the position of the tone control. So, that's a weakness of the comparison
The rest of the rig is exactly the same for each guitar. It's a Boss ME80 providing reverb and a volume pedal and the Little Jazz set with bass rolled all the way off, treble a little below noon and mids right at noon.
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12-17-2021 04:53 PM
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The trebles sounded nicer on the first take so I'll go with number 1.
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no 1
The guitar has a full sound...more jazz sound.
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The Yamaha has a more balanced tone, bass strings have more definition. The FEEL is important for me and there is not really so much I can do to a guitar to change it to the better if it's not there to begin with. The tone can be altered in many ways. For Ted Greene-Style chord soloing/fingerstyle the Yamaha will likely be the more suited guitar whereas the Comins (with some stiffer strings) will probably give you the typical "ploppy" Bebop/Mainstream type guitar sound without any problems.
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Definitely number 1. Agree with Kris, it has a fuller, warmer sound to my ears.
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Guitar #2 sounded best until you revealed what it is.
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Through phone speakers the Yamaha won by a large margin. Trebles sounded much clearer.
Through actual speakers, it was very close, but I leaned Comins.
Ain't that a pisser?
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Both sounded good, if I have to choose then it's guitar #2 (listening on AKG K240 headphones)
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I heard it more clearly on playback compared to when I was recording. On playback, I thought the Comins sounded warmer, but I could have EQ'ed so that the Comins sounded trebly and the Yamaha sounded warmer, or so I think. Of course, warmer is not necessarily what you want for a particular piece of music.
That Yamaha model sells regularly on CL for about $75. New, it sold in a kit for $179, including amp, bag, strap and a book iirc. The Lil 59 HB costs $71 on Amazon. I don't know what the tuners cost or are worth. I would note, though, that the Yamaha stays in tune really well while the Comins needs a tweak just about every time I check it. The Comins is $1700. I bought the Yamaha used in a store for about $130 iirc. It had the tuners but not the Lil 59. I bought and installed it separately. I also had to replace the switch and output jack. The HB in the bridge position died and I disconnected it. I like having the "off" position on the 5 position switch. I've used the Yamaha on a number of gigs. Nobody ever complained. One time, I did a show in a guitar store (it was set up for performances) and I heard later that the salesmen were snickering about the cheap guitar. The bandleader put an end to it by asking, "how did it sound?".
The Yamaha has a longer scale length, but the neck is smaller in every other dimension. It's kinder to my arthritic hands, which is why I like it. I find it a good deal easier to play in most ways. It can get a little cramped playing cowboy chords at the nut.
On gigs, I am more often unhappy with the Yamaha's sound than the Comins. It may be that the Comins tolerates playing too hard a little better. So, if I get excited and start digging in, the Yamaha's high notes may die. It can happen on the Comins too, but it's less likely.
Still, I think the Yamaha is a perfectly usable guitar, even for gigs. I think probably most people would prefer the sound of the Comins and I think everybody would prefer the looks of the Comins. But, I also think that many would agree that the difference in sound is not huge.
I thought to do this video in response to various threads about one guitar vs another and how much you have to spend to get a good one.
One last point. I used to have a video of a famous player playing Out of Nowhere on that Yamaha through a Crate GFX15 (under $100 new). He sounded like himself. His Benedetto sounds better.
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I'm not disagreeing with you but when playing something softly (define how softly) you can make almost anything sound the same. You said yourself when you commented that the Comins, when played in a more dynamic setting, sounds more like you would want.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
All solid body guitars sound good when played moderately. Even a tele!
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Rick, they sound pretty close to my ear, playing it on high quality Yamaha speakers (Maybe my speakers are fooling me in favor of their cousin, your guitar
). The Comins does sound a tiny bit warmer. I would say that if the Yamaha is the one that bothers your aging hands less (I too am dealing with an arthritic left hand, so I understand the problem), use the Yamaha.
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That's an interesting point. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
I'm not disagreeing with you but when playing something softly (define how softly) you can make almost anything sound the same. You said yourself when you commented that the Comins, when played in a more dynamic setting, sounds more like you would want.
All solid body guitars sound good when played moderately. Even a tele!
Another source of uncertainty in the results is that the guitars are not set up the same. I don't even know what that would mean for guitars with different scale lengths like these. The Comins has 11 13 16 24 32 42, iirc. That's a Fender 009 set, throw away the .009 and add a .13.
I can't recall what I have on the Yamaha, but it's probably an 11 to 46 set. The Yamaha feels much softer to play. Part of that is the neck
shape. Another part of it may be the extra length of non-vibrating string. So, I think the Yamaha may fret out with less finger pressure.
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Same guitars, but with different settings on the guitars' tone controls. Everything else is the same as in the first video.
Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 12-18-2021 at 12:23 AM.
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When you play at gig volume all things change - you dig in more, the speaker responds very differently to the stronger signal, the room acoustics play a role, where you sit or stand in relation to the speaker , ...
plus it's an issue with larger groups : does my guitar sound sit in a frequency "window" that lets it be heard in all it's tonal glory ?
You are able to coax nice tones out of these two guitars and the rest is more or less cork sniffing. When they feel good it's all good and you can make some beautiful noise with them !
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These two guitars have a similar sustain.The sound is similar.
But will this first guitar sound similar in concert conditions?
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In both of the videos I clearly preferred the Comins before you revealed them. Yamaha has a poppier sound and also a little thinner (Fender-esque). Comins has a rounder and fatter tone. Both tones have uses. You can also make them sound similar with technique.
What I mean by poppyness is (if that's a word), when you dig in, the guitar compresses and there is a very abrupt transition from open to compressed sound. I think it's a property of the long scale and smaller surface area of the pickups.
Comins have better dynamics. When you dig in, the transition is more gradual and the guitar gets louder in a more open way (less compressed) and with a hint of acoustics. Single notes are rounder as well.
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You're also using a solid state amp. That's more punishing for the Yamaha than the Comins. Yamaha would sound a bit smoother with a tube amp (or a tube amp modeller). The amp you're using sounds like a proud and unabashed solid state.
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I thought they sounded very similar.
As much as we go on and on about minutiae of tone, to a large extent tone comes from how the player crafts it with settings and touch. I have had the experience of listening to recordings of myself where I don't remember which guitar I used, and I can't immediately tell.
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I can do a video with a vintage tube amp. Originally Posted by Tal_175
I have informally compared the amps (vintage Ampeg Reverberocket to the LJ) and found that they sound surprisingly similar. But, I'll give it a try.
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My thinking is that the player automatically makes such adjustments in hand pressure and knob settings and so forth to best produce the sound in their head. "Tone is in the hands" is a shorthand for this idea. Sounding as good as we can is what we want. Say a string breaks mid performance and we go to our backup instrument. We are still going for the same sound, and after a few tweaks, 99 & 44/100% of the time, we get it, "Close enough for Jazz!"
May I add: The lil' 59 is an outstanding pickup. I ran one in my '66 Custom Telecaster for years, changing it back only recently.
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I know.. classic retired engineer.. I don't like the rules.
You are comparing two unlike instruments. It would be more informative from my POV to set each one up optimized for the sound they are best at. This might mean an EQ that enhances the acoustic overtones of the Comins while, for the Yamaha, something that takes advantage of it's clarity. In that comparison, pretty sure I would prefer the Comins because I'm partial to acoustic overtones. However, in this comparison, the Yamaha wins because the set up favored it's strengths.
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They both sounded very similar to me.
My experience is that acoustic archtops sound very different than flattop guitars, but when amplified, their distinctiveness is dramatically reduced to the point where string choice, pickup choice, and EQ have more of an impact on the sound than the construction of the body.
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I think there are some good reasons to object to the methodology, or lack thereof. But, I'll say this. I use both of these instruments regularly and for the same purposes. I plugged them in the way I usually do and I adjusted the tone controls to my usual taste, which, apparently, varies a bit. If I was trying to optimize for the individual guitars it would be a matter of rotating the tone controls, which I did in the second video. Originally Posted by Spook410
Of course, in engineering you never specify tighter tolerances than you need. I was just making a point about cheap guitars sounding pretty good in comparison to much more expensive instruments.
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But.. wait.. I was kind of hoping if I spend enough I'll sound like Anthony Wilson.
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In a mix, who would know? Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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