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  1. #1

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    Ibanez AF-120, Ibanez Af-200, Ibanez GB-200. All descendants of the JP-20 and or FG-100.

    I just need a JP-20 and an FG-100 (the parents) to bring the family back together. I am looking for both guitars, so if you find one for sale, please let me know.

    Ibanez Family Tree - Ibanez AF120, Ibanez AF200, Ibanez GB200-1-1-jpeg

    Ibanez Family Tree - Ibanez AF120, Ibanez AF200, Ibanez GB200-1-2-jpeg

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Isn't the PM200 also the same body as those? So, don't you need one of those? Just trying to be helpful

  4. #3

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    ...and the AF2000 - highly recommended!

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Isn't the PM200 also the same body as those? So, don't you need one of those? Just trying to be helpful
    I'm not a fan of Pat's playing, which is ok because he said that same about mine. So I don't really have any plans to get one but yes, you're right.

    To finish the collection I will need:

    JP20
    FG-100
    PM200
    AF2000
    Although you could argue if I get the 2000, why not get the AF200 from the 90's?

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    I'm not a fan of Pat's playing, which is ok because he said that same about mine. So I don't really have any plans to get one but yes, you're right.

    To finish the collection I will need:

    JP20
    FG-100
    PM200
    AF2000
    Although you could argue if I get the 2000, why not get the AF200 from the 90's?
    Thoroughness is a virtue.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Thoroughness is a virtue.
    I'm more than happy to have my thoroughness funded, if that's what it takes.


  8. #7

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    Take a look here in Italy :

    IBANEZ JP in - Mercatino Musicale

    I've done several deals with sellers from Italy over the past few years without any problems and most Italians are not hesitant to ship stuff throughout Europe - quite a different story with many french sellers.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman
    Take a look here in Italy :

    IBANEZ JP in - Mercatino Musicale

    I've done several deals with sellers from Italy over the past few years without any problems and most Italians are not hesitant to ship stuff throughout Europe - quite a different story with many french sellers.
    Thanks for posting.

    Damn, that looks like it had a hard life. I wonder what the holes in the top were for; a Roland synth?
    If the price was £600 I'd take it but after shipping and VAT, that guitar will likely cost me £1300, which is roughly the price of one in good condition.

    I'll keep waiting but I do really appreciate you looking and please, if you come across another one, let me know.

    There is one for sale for around £1400 in Maks guitars here in the UK but it is also in poor condition and way over priced imo.

  10. #9

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    You're welcome.
    Maybe you overlooked this one :
    IBANEZ JOE PASS JP20 - #7072071 - su Mercatino Musicale in Chitarre Semiacustiche
    No holes in the top, some marks on the frets but overall very clean. Highly doubtful you'll find a cheaper/nicer one in GB or elsewhere for that matter....
    Re VAT I'd ask the seller for a lower priced invoice. Shipping will be around € 50 or less. To Germany it's € 25,- for a guitar ....

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman
    You're welcome.
    Maybe you overlooked this one :
    IBANEZ JOE PASS JP20 - #7072071 - su Mercatino Musicale in Chitarre Semiacustiche
    No holes in the top, some marks on the frets but overall very clean. Highly doubtful you'll find a cheaper/nicer one in GB or elsewhere for that matter....
    Re VAT I'd ask the seller for a lower priced invoice. Shipping will be around € 50 or less. To Germany it's € 25,- for a guitar ....
    Sounds good, now I just have to learn Italian

    I'll send him/her a message end find out some more. I see some binding rot on the neck heel but it doesn't look too bad.

    JP-20's usually go for £1000-14000 in the UK but haven't seen one for a while. I turned a couple away a few years ago (literal) that went for around £1200. The UK ones generally have no binding issues.

    I'll let you know how I get on.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    I'm not a fan of Pat's playing, which is ok because he said that same about mine. So I don't really have any plans to get one but yes, you're right.

    To finish the collection I will need:

    JP20
    FG-100
    PM200
    AF2000
    Although you could argue if I get the 2000, why not get the AF200 from the 90's?
    I just checked Ibanez Wifi and I was kind of surprised the Joe Pass has 25 1/2" scale length and the FG 100 has a 24 3/4". The other difference is that the Ibanez FG 100 has 20 frets against 22 for the Joe Pass.

    According to Ibanez Wiki:

    The JP20 is modeled off a D'Aquisto 16" archtop which Pass owned. Pass primary design stipulation was a guitar that would accommodate his finger-style playing technique. To that end the JP20 has a 25½" scale and a fretboard with 22 frets instead of the more common 20 fret neck on a typical jazz box. This fretboard change means that the pickup is situated closer to the bridge by 3–4 cm compared to a "typical" jazz guitar like the AF200, which can cause the JP20s electric sound to be a bit thinner.[2]
    Then there is the top. Maple for the FG 100, spruce for the Joe Pass.

    I used to own a 1977 Ibanez Johnny Smith. I like my FG 100 much, much better.

    DB

  13. #12

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    I've been an Ibanez fan for decades, scoring a used 2630 as my first 'nice' guitar back in the '80's.

    Do you find any differences between the AF200 and GB200, other than the cosmetics?

  14. #13

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    I had a JP-20. It was a somewhat bright guitar due to the forward of the harmonic pickup placement combined with the 25.5 scale. If that guitar had a shorter scale and a better pickup placement, I would still own it. It had a great neck, very much like an early 60's Gibson 175.

    Good luck in your search!

  15. #14

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    AF200 to its older brother the LGB300 is very different. I have both, no comparison in my opinion. The AF200 is lighter, sounds thinner, feels smaller, it’s body is 1/8” shy of 2 3/4”. Actually a very comfortable guitar to play. Catalog lists top as laminated spruce. BackSides may be maple or amigre depending on year. Mine is the 2014 show prototype serial 00001 (weird, huh?) so comparing it to production AF200’s may not be valid. 6.85lbs. Acoustic sound is OK. From Rob’s recordings I think the AF2000 with its Amigre has a pleasant warmer sound than the maple. Makes sense.
    The 300 is a bigger, heavier guitar, and it sounds it. A fuller rounder sound, not a 175 thunk, it’s an acoustic/electric sound biased way on the electric side. Top is one piece spruce (there are reviews saying it’s carved, but I’m sure if it was, Ibanez would be broadcasting that.) It’s body is 3 1/4”. (You will see it reviewed as depth of 4.5”. That’s depth of body plus bridge.) Acoustic sound is very pleasant and fine to practice.
    The 300 neck feels different. It’s only 2mm wider at the nut (see below) but it’s somehow meatier feeling. The. 200 neck is an exact Ibanez neck, fast.
    They are both MIJ and show it. The 300 feels just as satisfying as picking up my
    L5. It exudes quality. There’s something about the neck that just feels inspiring. It sort of says ‘you are going to have to play me’. The AF 200 OTOH is like a happy puppy you pick up and just wants to,play play play.
    I love them both for very different reasons, each has a winning personality.
    NECK MEASURES
    Since the Ibanez necks keep getting the ‘too skinny’ rap, let’s compare to my Gibson Tal Farlow. I will just lay these out here for your perusal.




    LGB300
    AF200
    Tal Farlow
    Nut Width
    45
    43
    43
    Width 22F
    58
    58
    57
    Thickness 1F
    20
    20
    21
    Thickness 9F
    22
    23
    23


  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    I've been an Ibanez fan for decades, scoring a used 2630 as my first 'nice' guitar back in the '80's.

    Do you find any differences between the AF200 and GB200, other than the cosmetics?
    I will go back over the point of the thread by saying that I'm not claiming all these guitars are the same. They all have a variation, whether wood or scale length. What I'm saying is that in 1982, Ibanez created the round non Venetian cutaway, on a 16" bout guitar, with a slightly thinner body than the Gibson (2355 FA-100) equivalents. The GB-20 aside, it is the first time they deigned their own 16" jazzer and broke away from Gibson (apart from their rarer earliest designs).

    The two models that started and spawned all the models we have today with this body type are, FG, JP, AF, PM, GB, (some Artcore nomenclature) are all based on the same platform. The same platform that has been shared by 3 artist signatures. JP, GB PM. So a very successful platform for Ibanez.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    I've been an Ibanez fan for decades, scoring a used 2630 as my first 'nice' guitar back in the '80's.

    Do you find any differences between the AF200 and GB200, other than the cosmetics?
    The GB 200 is wider by 1.5 cm and slightly deeper. It is also heavier by some way.

    The AF200 like the AF120 has a springy playful feel (just as Kritter described) where the GB200 has a more serious benson sound.

    Benson's guitars all have the same MO. To be feedback friendly. How this then fits in with a solid spruce near 17" guitar is not obvious. You end up with a kind of bastardised guitar.
    Ibanez kinda failed with the GB-20 which had a slightly odd sound but they still needed something bigger than the GB-10 and GB15.
    I think the GB200 is therefore somewhat of a follow on from the GB-20 and since Ibanez already had the tried and tested JP/FG platform, they went with that (imo).

    If I could have an Aria PE-180 or L1000, I would chose the GB-200. You get the same fat and warm sound, the same weight but slightly better feedback resistance.
    The GB200 will also have a more sophisticated sound (imo).

  18. #17

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    Agree I would describe the 300 sound as complex. Interesting I’m quite happy with the sound and feel of the Super 58s on the 300, whereas on both the PM200 and AF200 I swapped around till the Fralin modern PAF gave me the warmer fuller sound. But on the 300, the 58s stay.
    In GB’s NAMM intro video on the 300 he talks about how he wanted a guitar reminiscent of his early guitar. Given the solidity of the 300, Must have been one heavy 175!
    jk

  19. #18

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    JP20 seriously good guitars, and in a few years time, values will increase.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durban
    JP20 seriously good guitars, and in a few years time, values will increase.
    Yes the price of the JP20 is remarkably low in comparison to other Ibanez artist models.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    Yes the price of the JP20 is remarkably low in comparison to other Ibanez artist models.
    Probably has to do with the bad rep the model gets for its pup placement. Many argue it sounds tinny because of that. Ibanez WIKI itself states that the pup is placed 3-4 cm closer to the bridge than on the AF 200, resulting in a thinner sound. Over the years many here have complained about its sound. Also Joe’s sound on recordings he made with that model is not that popular either among jazz guitarists. Many prefer his sound on the 175.

    DB


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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Probably has to do with the bad rep the model gets for its pup placement. Many argue it sounds tinny because of that. Ibanez WIKI itself states that the pup is placed 3-4 cm closer to the bridge than on the AF 200, resulting in a thinner sound. Over the years many here have complained about its sound. Also Joe’s sound on recordings he made with that model is not that popular either among jazz guitarists. Many prefer his sound on the 175.

    DB


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    You're right of course.

    Perhaps I'm a contrarian but I find the JP20 to the best artist model Ibanez ever made. The neck is a revelation.
    Based on a d'aquisto that Jimmy made for Joe. What's not to like?
    I didn't find the guitar thin, or any thinner than a GB model or Joe pass's sound.
    The sound is focused and the guitar is incredibly enjoyable to play.

    I've never liked Joe Pass's sound and haven't heard him with the Ibanez, except for some very poor quality VHS recordings.
    I think Joe Pass's sound was best on Intercontinental (175), yet his live sound with his 175's were imo lifeless, much like Jim Hall, (who also moved over to use Jimmy's guitars).

    I think this whole tone debate gets a bit over cooked. Joe's best and worst sound was on his 175 (ok the Epiphone JP was pretty bad). What does that say about the 175? That perhaps the sound is not always about the guitar.

    When people say the JP20 is too thin sounding, Are they also people who like Joe Pass's sound, or George Benson's?
    If so I struggle to see the point apart from it all being down to personal taste, bias and artist loyalty.

    Of course I could be wrong and it's my bias talking

  23. #22

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    Ibanez WIKI itself states that the pup is placed 3-4 cm closer to the bridge. Its almost a 1.5 CM closer not 3-4CM thats inaccurate. Just hauled mine out the cupboard.

    JP20 has 25.5" scale, Super58, Ebony board. Imo the PUP is too articulate its needs something darker real filthy ( not loud)

    They sound awsome with 14-58 they record well. Pat & Sco both used guitars with Super 58 both dont really have that Wes-Tal- classic i would described Sco souind as sometimes tortuture. ( its almost thin shrill, ) but i love that as well its his lines, Loud Jazz LP shows this Funk.

    JP20 is probably the most comfortable guitar ever for me. GB10 were ok. My 165 is ok, worst was my 1980 AS200 just could not bond with that. Things change over time stomach wise. ha ha.

    GB10 fantastic guitars but somehow seem dainty/effiminate had 3 since 1980. imo should have been a single pup.


    Barney K always one of my faves, sometimes has a crap sound. thing is he has probably recorded more than anyone in different settings/dates/records etc, so its hard to judge.
    his Mezzo Archive 79 video he is playing an Ibanez prototype good sound & playing