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I put the Zamac on my blonde and brass on my other 2 L5’s. The Zamac is lighter and warmer and the brass a bit brighter with more sustain. Absolute spot on intonation. The Zamac costs more. They ship from Germany so a bit pricey in the USA but worth the price IMO. Very high quality.
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11-09-2021 02:17 PM
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How funny. I just learned what zamac was yesterday, and why it's terrible (as a material for belt buckles
). And here we are. Never heard of it used in this context.
Those are handsome bridges on handsome guitars. Did you change the studs and wheels, too? Are we getting clips some day?
I've long been a stainless steel man, myself. I don't think it makes things brighter as much as it makes things more "accurate", which in turn makes things brighter by clearing mud. It also extends the lows (and highs). Does it conduct sound better, or improve mechanical connections or both (or neither), I don't know. I think it it more as clarity than brightness.
I sometimes wonder about "warmer" bridges, but it's hard to find what I like in gold, so I just let it ride. I'm used to it and know how to compensate.
At any rate, changing your bridge material is a super dramatic tonal change, on par with a pickup swap. Not familiar with KMS but I'll take a peek. Been using (the extremely cantankerous) callaham bridges, and (the extremely friendly) Tru arc bridges. Both highly recommended, as is the practice of bridge swapping.
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They look nice but I prefer the sound and even the looks of an ebony saddle. To my ears the guitar sounds much better and intonation really is not that much different. For myself one can simply apply different amounts of pressure on strings at the fret and this changes the intonation more than than small amount the tunomatic allows. So depending on how you fret a string and pressure you apply this can have an equal effect on the intonation. I certainly get it that the tunomatic should/is more spot on but due to overtones and in real life playing the gains are marginal, and I live the sound of the ebony. Have you tried an ebony one?
Some players though prefer the sound of the metal bridge and this is just a personal preference. I carved an ebony saddle for my Super 400ces and my recent L5c. Then week later my friend up the road bought a Citation and I carved him an ebony bridge. It was a pure black Gabon ebony blank I have a nice ebony been in the shop for over 15 years.
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They come with studs and wheels but I used the stock Gibson.
They also give you a bag of spare screws, saddle, and locking C-clips.
Marcus the owner of Kiss My Strings is also a great guy.
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I have dog ears and MUST have spot on intonation.
I love the sound of ebony but intonation is more important.
I put wood ones on my L5’s and didn’t like the lack of sustain and intonation.
My Campellone’s have spot on intonation with ebony bridges which
I love. Can’t get that on my L5’s without a ABR.
For me intonation trumps wood.
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Zamac is mostly zinc (95%+), flavoured in different versions with aluminum, copper and magnesium for variations in spicy die-cast goodness. Gibson has used it from day one.
It's easy enough to get a wood bridge with compensation matched to specific string sets to optimize the intonation on an L-5 or any other archtop guitar.
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Gibson bridges are cast and these are solid billet CNC machined. This is not a argument over what is better
wood or TOM. I am simply stating this is the best ABR-1 I have ever tried and I have tried them all.
The stock Gibson ABR/TOM is not good quality IMO.
This post is for guys that like tun-o-matic bridges. This post is NOT intended for you wood saddle guys.
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I get that the brass bridge is machined - I've read about these, as well as machined versions in steel and aluminum. I went through the KMS site, and they do mention that Zamac was developed for casting/plating. I also read that their zinc tune-o-matic is the "world's first CNC machined ZAMAC bridge." As Jake would say, "Cool, cool. Cool cool. Cool cool."
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
ABM does a brass tune-o-matic as well. Callaham does a steel tune-o-matic. Pinnacle does both. Interesting....Last edited by Hammertone; 11-11-2021 at 10:47 PM.
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Is this kms bridge better than the Cooper Musical Components bridge? I am not worried about saddles coming out when strings break. But kms uses circlips and Teflon washers holding the saddles in and the cmc bridge has the same setup as the original abr1. Would you think that makes a difference in tonal transfer and or note Blume and tone openness. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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$7.50 shipped from China via AliExpress…. Works like a charm!
Okay, I am teasing you guys, would never put it on an expensive L5 but you actually could and it would be fully functional…. I have it on my Ibanez AF55 and very happy with it. I sanded the edges to give it a bit of a vintage appearance and oiled it with boiled linseed oil and it looks 50 years old now……
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For me I really like Wayne Compton Bridges
Compton Guitar Bridge | Best Guitar Bridge
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unavailable ..... Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Vinny, did you try the ABM bridges?
They are also machined from solid brass and cost (here in Germany) only half of the KMS...
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No but I’ve used the Faber ABR. Also made in Germany. They come pre notched for Gibson and is a drop in replacement also. They have a 20% off sale every holiday so you can get a gold one with the discount for $65.00 Originally Posted by bluenote61
They are a close second in quality.
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I find this interesting, I use a peterson strobe and I also have a sensitivity to pitch ( I worked with a mastering engineer and many concert string players) Ive never had an intonation problem with any guitar set up with a properly made bridge no matter what the material (always have it checked by my luthier) many if not most of the truly masterfull sounding instruments have non compensated bridges. I agree material makes a difference in tone. So with this new bridge does it make every note fingered have perfect intonation? Wouldnt fret size would have an impact to the hyper sensitive hearing of a tone master? Im not bustin chops here but Im wondering if tone and intonation arent being confused with each other as descriptors of sound. Ive never seen a tunomatic on a classical guitar...I wonder how Anna V or Pepe R cope?
just sayin...curious minds want to know
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Dog ears? Here's vinny playing out: Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Yes, I have been very happy with the Faber on my LP, and I replaced the tailpiece with a light aluminum one, from Philadelphia Luthier supply IIRC. On the Campy it's wood all the way, wouldn't change a thing, as Vinnie says, perfect intonation. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
If you drop an original ABR1 and a Gibbie reissue on a table you will (supposedly!) hear a difference in tone. The Faber and probably the KMS would sound similar. I haven't tried a brass ABR1, I kind of shied away from that after the brass craze of the late '70's.
Also the saddles should be nickel or gold plated brass, not sure what is on the reissues, but they have been getting better at duplicating the original parts- every year they claim to have an even more accurate '59 LP reissue! Myself, I would like an accurate '59 L5CES reissue! BTW they sent me posts as well, I believe are they too are plated brass. I haven't put them on my LP yet, but I sent a pair to Mark C to try and he put them on my Campy bridge. I asked him if he could hear a difference and he said "not really"...Sounds great to me! But I don't know if they're any better.
You can really go down a rabbit hole with this stuff.
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A tun-o-matic is not necessary on a Campellone. Mark has it down to a science. My Campellone’s have spot on intonation with his wood saddle.
Same with my Borys.
My Gibson’s need a ABR for perfect intonation especially up high on the neck. Perfect intonation is a must when you play with a piano in perfect tune especially if your guitar goes sharp up high. It doesn’t sound as bad if you go a little flat at least to me.
Also who wants a bridge that rattles and buzzes like many stock ones do.
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Ive only used 1 ABR which is a gibson, no problems. I have a schaller with LR piezos, no problems and several Heritage's with noncompensated bridges and perfect intonation so I ve never experienced what you are. I dont understand what would cause a guitar (especialy an L5) to have an inherant intonation defect. Im honestly curious about this as Im not a luthier or even do my own setups as I have a tech here that gets them perfect for me, that said I check my intonation with a peterson strobe tuner and am super picky about setup and adjustment so my question really goes to how and or why would a guitar need an ABR and another not as you have pointed out yours do.
As always interesting thread
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Well I guess the short answer is why does Gibson have to put TOM bridges on all the electric guitars they make. A wood saddle is cheaper to make.
Wes Montgomery summed it up best. The guitar is a imperfect instrument. Never perfectly in tune like a piano.
Even Wes had a TOM on his L-5’s.
Also all Fender’s have adjustable saddles. Why….for perfect intonation.
Everything can affect intonation. String type and gauge, frets, neck relief, action height, humidity and temperature. Wood moves and ages just like us.
I actually love both wood and TOM bridges. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
This was never a discussion on which is best.
It was a discussion on the best TOM. KMS and Faber are the best IMO for a Gibson replacement. Very precise with no thread slop.Last edited by vinnyv1k; 11-25-2023 at 11:30 PM.
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My question was why would an L5 not "intone" say, like a Campellone so mabey my question belongs in an L5 thread. I would think for instance Wes used what sounded good to him and a TOM has a different sound than a wood bridge. Im only trying to understand the mechanics that would prevent a well made (L5) guitar from intoning (is that a word?) like a another ostensibly made the same guitar with an unadjustable wood bridge.
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Intonate
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Thx to V1K's input, I am looking into the KMS with the V pre groove. I find it amazing that, on all 3 above, the saddles are arranged in blocks of 3 with hi E ,B and D and then E A and G "oriented" towards their "most travelled" intonation direction. Aesthetically pleasing and efficient. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
I put the Zamac on my blonde and brass on my other 2 L5’s. The Zamac is lighter and warmer and the brass a bit brighter with more sustain. Absolute spot on intonation. The Zamac costs more. They ship from Germany so a bit pricey in the USA but worth the price IMO. Very high quality.
S
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They are the best. Period. Together with the KMS tele saddles and the whiptail:
KMS Whiptail Wraparound Bridge (Review)
I know Markus from KMS since three years, he‘s a nice and competent guy. His stuff is in a class of it‘s own. My „Bach-friend“ Noel Johnston bought a set of KMS Telebridges after we had a discussion about different bridge materials and loves them. Just like his buddy Andy Timmons. By the way, Joel did a review video on Youtube.
Concerning bar bridges I rely on the high end stuff from TruArc. No one knows bar bridges better:
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