Choosing a Solid State Head for Jazz (Coupled with Cana Rex 12" Speaker)

[jazzkritter]

Herbie don’t feel left bad! Everyplace I read doing my research everyone said the same thing…. Oh FRFR is only for modeling!
Old electronics saying… RTFM (read the f#@%ing manual). Yes it says FRFR is for modeling, but in terms of providing the cleanest non special EQed signal out.
Dude it’s our secret now
And, I just scored a Block Dock 12HD at Chuck Levins in DC…. 499US$ shipped free. (Usually 549 online.)
Woo Hoo!

So, mrs jk, about that new boxy thing…..

[Arya44]

Hi Herbie
I reached out to Pat at Quilter, asked what amp would a Polytone/Walter Woods fan be happy with.
Yep… Tone Block 202 in FRFR mode.
Rapidly becoming my fav.
Nothing like the 101, which is an ice pick IMHO.
Watch for pre owned?
jk

some amps have potential for improvement and have a good foundation. If I don’t have a luck with built-in options, I have a boss CS-2 compressor and GE-7 equalizer that put in front of the amp input and shape the tone a bit. I think one could do that with 101 instead of swapping the amp first see if it floats their boat.

[Herbie]

Herbie don’t feel left bad! Everyplace I read doing my research everyone said the same thing…. Oh FRFR is only for modeling!
Old electronics saying… RTFM (read the f#@%ing manual). Yes it says FRFR is for modeling, but in terms of providing the cleanest non special EQed signal out.
Dude it’s our secret now
And, I just scored a Block Dock 12HD at Chuck Levins in DC…. 499US$ shipped free. (Usually 549 online.)
Woo Hoo!

So, mrs jk, about that new boxy thing…..

I had to test this right away. And yes indeed, the FRFR mode gives a VERY Polytoneish sound. Wow!

Of course the speakers are different (my 10” combo has a Jensen Tornado and 12” combo has a Celestion Alnico Cream) but anyway, it is a fine sound for jazz.

So hats off to Pat Q, thanks for shearing the secret and good luck with the BD!

[jazzkritter]

Herbie seriously isnt it a great sound?!
Glad I was able to help. Can’t wait to hear it on the Block Dock Bn300 should be a treat.
d

[pingu]

1156786[/URL]]I had to test this right away. And yes indeed, the FRFR mode gives a VERY Polytoneish sound. Wow!

Of course the speakers are different (my 10” combo has a Jensen Tornado and 12” combo has a Celestion Alnico Cream) but anyway, it is a fine sound for jazz.

So hats off to Pat Q, thanks for shearing the secret and good luck with the BD!

thats interesting , the FRFR mode is
presumably just an uncoloured flat response amp

[Arya44]

Got a reply from Pat Quilter regarding: if there is a difference in voicing and response of Superblock US vs. Tone Block 202.
He is a great guy for personal response, professional feedback, and being so prompt.
below is the response:

Hello Arya

No two amp models are quite the same, but aside from the power difference (25W vs 200W) the SuperBlock and Tone Block share all of our important “tone mojo” features:
--Warm, high impedance power section that “wakes up” any good guitar speaker
--Rich chewy overdrive section that captures the “feel” and controllable breakup of the best vintage amps, ranging from clean to “cheese” to full overdrive without losing chord definition and rapid run response
--Selectable Voices to capture the baseline sounds of favorite vintage tube amps
--3-band active EQ for additional tone shaping
--Adjustable Master control that regulates power-at-breakup from zero to 100% without any change in “feel” or “sweet spot”
--Internally calibrated Limiter control that lets you easily limit distortion to a “rolling boil” or even produce clean sustain.
--Nice clean digital reverb section, voiced to float in the mix without muddiness.
--Our latest set of Direct Out features for headphone or recording, with internal Cab Sim to warm up the tone.

Obviously, a 200 watt amp “cuts the small talk” but the 25W Superblock will keep up with tube amps of similar power, which are often used in home, studio, and small stage applications, with the added benefit of no-hassle Direct Out when needed.

Best regards

Pat Quilter

case closed! I’m happy with Superblock US in that case. Can’t wait for it to arrive

[jazzkritter]

Indeed. It’s not trying to be something else by imposing EQ or filtering. Definition of high fidelity is linear reproduction, so it makes sense (to me) that for an arch top high fidelity is a good goal. Granted plenty folks out there love their scooped middles, but I never did. I purposely redesigned my PR tone stack for that reason.
In any event it works, and I’m very happy to have found something finally that comes close to my (dying) Walter Woods. Only complaint so far is it’s an immediate response. The Woods has an almost tube like sag/delay/soft onset, which I was told by Walter is the characteristic of the power transistors he used. Sadly they’re long in the unobtanium bin.
quodos to quilter.
jk

[Jim Soloway]

Indeed. It’s not trying to be something else by imposing EQ or filtering. Definition of high fidelity is linear reproduction, so it makes sense (to me) that for an arch top high fidelity is a good goal. Granted plenty folks out there love their scooped middles, but I never did. I purposely redesigned my PR tone stack for that reason.
In any event it works, and I’m very happy to have found something finally that comes close to my (dying) Walter Woods. Only complaint so far is it’s an immediate response. The Woods has an almost tube like sag/delay/soft onset, which I was told by Walter is the characteristic of the power transistors he used. Sadly they’re long in the unobtanium bin.
quodos to quilter.
jk

The mid control on the Superblock is really powerful. It can definitely dial out most of the scooped mids.

[Arya44]

The mid control on the Superblock is really powerful. It can definitely dial out most of the scooped mids.

Hi Jim.
This is important for versatility. Thanks for the info.

Arya

[Arya44]

Indeed. It’s not trying to be something else by imposing EQ or filtering. Definition of high fidelity is linear reproduction, so it makes sense (to me) that for an arch top high fidelity is a good goal. Granted plenty folks out there love their scooped middles, but I never did. I purposely redesigned my PR tone stack for that reason.
In any event it works, and I’m very happy to have found something finally that comes close to my (dying) Walter Woods. Only complaint so far is it’s an immediate response. The Woods has an almost tube like sag/delay/soft onset, which I was told by Walter is the characteristic of the power transistors he used. Sadly they’re long in the unobtanium bin.
quodos to quilter.
jk

It’s probably my hollow body guitar (Morris ES-175 copy) that has tendency for certain bass and low-mid frequencies accumulation that in the linear fashion treatment in the amp ends up creating too much build-up that mushes up the chords. I guess to some extend a lot of laminated hollow bodies have that tendency. I think for thin line hollow bodies it may be less of an issue. Probably a full hollow body made of real wood (e.g. Eastman 600 series and above) the tone is so perfect that linear works well and staying true to the guitar tone makes sense. Also it could be the pickup choice too, mind you I tried with both original PAF style Maxon pickup and Gibson 57 Classic, and both they had the same sort of low-mid / bass build-up on D, A, and E strings. A is the worse and I love software that offer two or more parametric EQ so I can balance out those swell areas to even things out. I think to some extend is the style too for instance for chord melody especially for some genres like bossa nova, actually those E, A, and even D strings are covering for missing upright bass anyway so that big fat bass swell is separated from treble strings by playing style so too much bass / low mid doesn’t sound out of place.

[bluejaybill]

some amps have potential for improvement and have a good foundation. If I don’t have a luck with built-in options, I have a boss CS-2 compressor and GE-7 equalizer that put in front of the amp input and shape the tone a bit. I think one could do that with 101 instead of swapping the amp first see if it floats their boat.

Yes, I am fine with my jazz guitar straight into my amp, but a good compressor (Empress Mk. II) and a GE7 (Analogman mod) make it that much better.

[jazzkritter]

Interesting Arya I will have to pull my L5 out and see if it likes the FRFR/linear sound. I’ve only had the TB two weeks so haven’t tried everything yet. The L5 is a guitar I can trust as being solid wood). I’ve only had it on my LGB300 which is solid but not carved. We shall see.
pickups can make a huge difference. If you can try a Fralin or Lollar PAF you might find they give you more of what you like. I use the Fralin it doesn’t boom at all in the lower end in fact I have to raise it a bit to even out.Good luck and have fun!

[ccroft]

hmmm.... down to the bunker to try FRFR... I'll report my findings.

[whiskey02]

My only experience with Cannabis Rex speakers is that they are brighter than some others. I bought two to put in my Vibrolux Reverb, and I ended up putting one into my RE Stealth 10, and using that speaker in the VR. My experience was that the CR speakers were a little brighter, and tighter in both treble and bass than the Eminence Alpha, which gave a darker tone. YMMV. I haven't heard a Superblock in person, so I have no opinion about it.

The hemp C rex speaker is often noted for being fairly subdued in the high end, and that’s been experience too. It is often suggested to tame an overly bright amp, like Fender blackface.
Nobody asked for my opinion but I’ll say anyway that I am baffled by the prevalence of and admiration of BF amps. I’m with Ed Bickert when he said “ give me anything but a fender amp”.

[sgosnell]

I'm in the same camp. I don't like Fender amps very much. I have one, mostly because I didn't now any better at the time, and I got a great deal on it from a pawn shop, whose manager I knew and played with. For ~$200 I got a used Vibrolux Reverb and a Boss GE-7 thrown in, back in '93 or '94. But truthfully, almost any solid-state amp sounds as good if not better, weighs much less, and uses much less electricity, and doesn't heat my house in the summer. In the winter, it's cheaper to heat with the central heat. As for the CR Rex speakers, I can only address the 10" version, in the VR amp. I don't know about any other applications. I'm far from an expert on the subject. For me, the CR has more treble and sounds better than the previous speakers, that's all I can say. It does not sound at all dark to me.

[Arya44]

I'm in the same camp. I don't like Fender amps very much. I have one, mostly because I didn't now any better at the time, and I got a great deal on it from a pawn shop, whose manager I knew and played with. For ~$200 I got a used Vibrolux Reverb and a Boss GE-7 thrown in, back in '93 or '94. But truthfully, almost any solid-state amp sounds as good if not better, weighs much less, and uses much less electricity, and doesn't heat my house in the summer. In the winter, it's cheaper to heat with the central heat. As for the CR Rex speakers, I can only address the 10" version, in the VR amp. I don't know about any other applications. I'm far from an expert on the subject. For me, the CR has more treble and sounds better than the previous speakers, that's all I can say. It does not sound at all dark to me.

After reading a few comments about hesitations around Fender scooped tone that may sway curiosity for Superblock amp, I was listening to this demo again and tried to identify the typical scooped character of Fender amp. Not much I could pin point. To me this sounds pretty neutral:

[sgosnell]

The Superblock may be fine. I have never seen one in person, so I have no opinion about it. I have seen Greg Ruggiero play through one on YouTube, and it sounded fine, but I never go by what I hear in internet videos. Quilter is known for producing amps with the Fender sound, but I don't know that they all do. Buy what sounds good to you, and works for your situation, not what a bunch of old farts on a forum tell you to buy.

[Arya44]

I found this is a good comparison between a couple of DV Mark amps for jazz and a few other amps including some Fender models:

[Gitterbug]

After reading a few comments about hesitations around Fender scooped tone that may sway curiosity for Superblock amp, I was listening to this demo again and tried to identify the typical scooped character of Fender amp. Not much I could pin point. To me this sounds pretty neutral:

To my knowledge, Greg uses the Tweed 57 setting, which isn't scooped. If offers more midrange - and therewith clean headroom - than the other voicings. I was playing a gig today on my ES-175 VOS, Quilter SuperBlock US on the ´57 setting, midrange at noon, bass at 2 o'clock and treble at 10 o'clock. The cab was a Toob 10B bass version with Celestion's BN10-200X inside. Very jazzy. Largish cafeteria, hard acoustics with much glass around, a trumpet, tenor sax, hammering pianist, electric upright bass and drums. Had to turn my volume down twice but got compliments for tone.

[Arya44]

To my knowledge, Greg uses the Tweed 57 setting, which isn't scooped. If offers more midrange - and therewith clean headroom - than the other voicings. I was playing a gig today on my ES-175 VOS, Quilter SuperBlock US on the ´57 setting, midrange at noon, bass at 2 o'clock and treble at 10 o'clock. The cab was a Toob 10B bass version with Celestion's BN10-200X inside. Very jazzy. Largish cafeteria, hard acoustics with much glass around, a trumpet, tenor sax, hammering pianist, electric upright bass and drums. Had to turn my volume down twice but got compliments for tone.

Thanks for the info. I listened to samples for all three modelling modes and found 57 more neutral for tone which I liked. Not sure why they advertise it as rootsy and not clean, … may be if pushed to breakup? Or with a different pickup? Anyway, once I have the amp, I’ll play with the knobs and post my most liked setting that will be a balance of neutral and expressiveness especially in mid-range. I’ll keep your settings in mind. Thanks

[mad dog]

Of the Quilters I've played, the OD200 head was the standout. Excellent sound, more or less in the BF fender zone. Very flexible amp. I used only the clean channel, could dial in a just right amount of edge sound via MV and gain knob.

The DV Mark Micro 50 CMT is probably my favorite of all the SS amps I've owned. As Gitterbug mentions, the micro 50s have a dark, mellow kind of vibe. Not muffled or muddy. Smooth. I use it with an open back pine cab and a ceramic magnet speaker (Alltone 1265). Not sure how it would go with a closed back cab. I mostly play a P90 tele and an Eastman T64/v through this setup; it seems to favor P90s.

If I understand the amp correctly, the drive controls are additive, not a separate channel. So it's clean, with just little edge dialed in via the gain knob, much as I played the Quilter OD200.

[rpjazzguitar]

The Little Jazz reverb sounds okay at low settings. I find it unusable at higher settings, but my son, not a jazz player, likes it.

The LJ absolutely reduces that fizziness high up on the E string. It may be my favorite characteristic of the LJ.

I haven't used the others, so I can't comment.

[Arya44]

The Little Jazz reverb sounds okay at low settings. I find it unusable at higher settings, but my son, not a jazz player, likes it.

The LJ absolutely reduces that fizziness high up on the E string. It may be my favorite characteristic of the LJ.

I haven't used the others, so I can't comment.

yes I noticed that in the samples in YouTube. Closest I heard to an affordable alternative to thick polytone tone charachter. Thick but not too dark or muffled.

[Gitterbug]

Having worked close to the food industry for over 20 years, I'm aware of the significant differences in acquired taste from one country, even region, to another. Cadbury vs. Hershey chocolate is an obvious example. I think the same cultural differences are true for amps and speakers. Fender has defined the American guitar sound and hooked a huge following to it. Quilter is hot on the trail - I suspect Pat Quilter's personal taste plays a big role here. In rock, the Brit sound is the alternative. In jazz, with Polytones more or less relics, DV Mark is the opposite pole. Yet, their amp designs are at least five years old. The only growing segment in onstage amplification is ultralight gear. DV Mark - time to stop milking and, instead, introducing something into the under 1 kg/ 2 lbs weight class!

[whiskey02]

Acoustic Image Clarus 1R Series I 2000s Black | Jonah's Gear | Reverb
No affiliation, just surprised Acoustic Image hadn’t been mentioned yet.