PSA - Gibson To Revive Archtop (and Mandolin) Production

[Stringswinger]

There has always been love / hate with Gibson. Nothing new.
Love the guitar but hate the price.
It all boils down to what emotion wins personally that decides
ownership of one.
Personally I’ve worked many 80 hour weeks to get one.


.

Yep, hard work will get one a Gibson guitar way faster than bitching about things like income inequality or someone else's "privilege" ever will.

[AllanAllen]

Don

If I had the CEOs ear I'd tell him to get Epiphone Archtops back in production and have a matching Gibson Archtop each year so.

All guitars are natural or sunburst

2022: Epiphone Joe Pass, Gibson ES-175
2023: Epiphone And Gibson ES-5
2024: start having fun L1(acoustic only no piezeo junk, no on board USB processors)
2025: Tal Farlow
2026: Johnny Smith

[jim777]

Gibson has always been a deep pocket company.

Historically sure, but last year they were actually $500 million in debt when they went into receivership/restructuring.

I think the quality of the "average" Gibson archtop and "average" Gibson solidbody really can't be directly compared. Gibson is a fairly universally liked and respected archtop builder, and recent examples like the ES-275 were well received. But Gibson does not consistently make great solid bodies, and too many are worse than good. The high levels of consistency and workmanship from one instrument to another just isn't always there with Gibson. A $2000 guitar should feel like a lot of effort and time went into building it, and you get that from lots of other places. You shouldn't have to spend $4500 on a solidbody from Gibson to get the same quality and attention to detail you get from a $1500 Tokai. Now, I did play a fairly decent Gibson Explorer recently, so there are some good ones out there, but you don't have to try a dozen Ibanezes to find 'to good one", they're all good, and Gibson's solidbodies just aren't there.

[jazzkritter]

I would agree. Sure there are some flat out Gibson ‘haters’, and not only here. But i think theres a ‘middle layer’ of Gibson fans who have been bit by a poor quality build, but still respect and want to see Gibson carry on. And then the fan boys who never experienced a Q A dog, and think the middle layer are haters.
im in the middle layer

[JaxJaxon]

Gibson has gotten so full of its self they should just stop making instruments all together, and just become investment brokers.

[deacon Mark]

I have generally been a Gibson fan from the beginning and in the end they are the only guitars that really are sellers pretty quick for a decent price. I have owned a number over the years and all have been top quality. I have had Johnny Smiths, L5's, and right now I have a 2005 Super 400ces fantastic. The QC is as good as the as builders I knew and worked with Bill Hollenbeck and Bill Barker. I realize all don't fall into this picture. I have a 2002 Legrand the is picture perfect too.... unbelievable guitar. These two guitar would easily sell faster than my Barker's, Hollenbeck's, and even the Campellone. Are they better? No but certainly not worse as the word is used.

I for one would like to see them succeed it is just the tradition they have that I would not like to see go. The L5 is still the standard by which we judge most archtops either an acoustic or CES. The price might be high be frankly you don't buy it for any reason other than you want to play one. Then down the road either you will sell it or the heirs will for you. My son has a mid 80's Les Paul with T Shaw pup and it is a fantastic guitar I could play really anything with it. It would work for jazz or rock county. Also I really don't want anything one off. I would prefer they just stay to the tried and true Super 400, L5, ES175. Just make those models and make them great. That would keep the cost down not so much changing and just concentrate on quality necks, playability and fine finishing with the basic stuff. A Super 400 one pickup would be cool too.

To me right now the most sellable or at least desirable Gibson might be the Wes L5. It is built in so that makes many happy. It retains more acoustic sound and less to mess with if you just play jazz. So I propose they make one model each of S400 L5 as acoustic and then a CES. Make a 175 with 1 and 2 pickup models. Bring all production to these specifics and really I think it could work. I am rooting for them!

[Donplaysguitar]

Don

If I had the CEOs ear I'd tell him to get Epiphone Archtops back in production and have a matching Gibson Archtop each year so.

All guitars are natural or sunburst

2022: Epiphone Joe Pass, Gibson ES-175
2023: Epiphone And Gibson ES-5
2024: start having fun L1(acoustic only no piezeo junk, no on board USB processors)
2025: Tal Farlow
2026: Johnny Smith

OK, here's what I think is more likely:

L5 and Wes,
Super 400,
LeGrand,

The LeGrand is not an icon, but is more in line with contemporary builds (a cross between the Johnny Smith and L5).

Now, laminates? It's difficult to say. There's so much competition out there.

[Stringswinger]

OK, here's what I think is more likely:

L5 and Wes,
Super 400,
LeGrand,

The LeGrand is not an icon, but is more in line with contemporary builds (a cross between the Johnny Smith and L5).

Now, laminates? It's difficult to say. There's so much competition out there.

Sure there are plenty of laminates, but none of them are a Gibson ES-175. You would need a medium to confirm this, but I would bet that Joe Pass, Herb Ellis and Jim Hall would all agree (As would Django's brother Joseph and Django's two sons, all three of whom were 175 players).

Look at the prices of used 175's today. Gibson will bring them back just as sure as the L-5 and Super 400.

[Donplaysguitar]

Sure there are plenty of laminates, but none of them are a Gibson ES-175. You would need a medium to confirm this, but I would bet that Joe Pass, Herb Ellis and Jim Hall would all agree (As would Django's brother Joseph and Django's two sons, all three of whom were 175 players).

Look at the prices of used 175's today. Gibson will bring them back just as sure as the L-5 and Super 400.

OK.

I personally welcome all of the above, and more.

Should be interesting.

[Jimmy Mack]

At this point, any news about them making archtops again seems interesting. Something to keep an eye on and track. Fun

And how long do we hold our breath?

[Donplaysguitar]

And how long do we hold our breath?

you could always call the boys at Wildwood Guitars. Still a Gibby dealer.

[voxsss]

Of course there will be the living room hacks who play Asian made guitars of a quality nowhere near that of a Gibson who will scream about how their $1500 guitar is better. I ignore that noise myself.

....Peerless Monarch

[Midnight Blues]

More on the subject:

“Hey Mat,
Regarding the arch tops, ever since 1970 the L5ces’ have had the wrong neck set (too high) compared to the earlier ones. This puts the bridge too high up and makes the whole thing play much stiffer. You can see this easily by looking at the side where the fingerboard meets the body, it is much higher than 60s and earlier. Also they changed in 1970 to have a weird slant toward the fretboard necessitating turning the neck pickup ring reverse to keep the pickup at the right angle. The earlier L5s with the right neck set are sooo much better feeling and sounding. I hope when these are overhauled that looooong standing change can be fixed. also pre-‘70 L5ces’ have much thinner tops than modern. Until these specs go back to the original I can only consider buying the pre-‘70 version and I know I’m definitely not alone. Sure loving my ’64!”

“Hey there! Thanks for the message. Yes all of these reasons and more are why we want to discontinue the range and start fresh. The current range is great, but as I said before the problem is they don't have a logical home in the current product architecture...they are neither Historic nor Modern...kind of an in between rooted in the 1970s techniques. So we will be taking the same approach with archtop reissues as the recent Korina reissues. Regarding top thickness, we are planning on getting CAT scans to study the graduation of the top and back carves underneath. What I've proposed is to start with a 1957 L-5CES Reissue...for that year a variety of pickups would be applicable to the platform.”

[2bornot2bop]

Typical Gibson noise thread. All the Gibson bean counter did was throw you a bone, and you’re off and running with hypothetical’s about this guitar and another. They’ve not built an archtop in what 3-4 years? I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t talk about it, be about it!

[Stringswinger]

Typical Gibson noise thread. All the Gibson bean counter did was throw you a bone, and you’re off and running with hypothetical’s about this guitar and another. They’ve not built an archtop in what 3-4 years? I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t talk about it, be about it!

You have a point. This whole thread could be the result of a test marketing by Gibson to see how much interest there is in new Gibson archtop production.

Personally, my days of buying new Gibson guitars or new Harley Davidson motorcycles are behind me (I have 7 Gibson and 2 Harleys...I think I am set), but I would like to see the venerable American manufacturers continue on for future generations.

[jazzkritter]

“we will be taking the same approach with archtop reissues as the recent Korina reissues.“


Awesome. Thats the limited quantity historic reissue Korina Flying V for
9,999.00 US$.

Gibson: Official supplier of guitars to blooze lawyers, plastic surgeons, and software salesmen world wide.

[Flat]

I have a 1945 L-7, but I don't have much experience at all with the L-5, unfortunately. Always wanted a Wes. Maybe someday.
What do guys who have a lot of experience with L-5s think of this quote? Is it accurate? Do you agree? Is it a "thing"?

"Regarding the arch tops, ever since 1970 the L5ces’ have had the wrong neck set (too high) compared to the earlier ones. This puts the bridge too high up and makes the whole thing play much stiffer. You can see this easily by looking at the side where the fingerboard meets the body, it is much higher than 60s and earlier. Also they changed in 1970 to have a weird slant toward the fretboard necessitating turning the neck pickup ring reverse to keep the pickup at the right angle."

[2bornot2bop]

I have a 1945 L-7, but I don't have much experience at all with the L-5, unfortunately. Always wanted a Wes. Maybe someday.
What do guys who have a lot of experience with L-5s think of this quote? Is it accurate? Do you agree? Is it a "thing"?

"Regarding the arch tops, ever since 1970 the L5ces’ have had the wrong neck set (too high) compared to the earlier ones. This puts the bridge too high up and makes the whole thing play much stiffer. You can see this easily by looking at the side where the fingerboard meets the body, it is much higher than 60s and earlier. Also they changed in 1970 to have a weird slant toward the fretboard necessitating turning the neck pickup ring reverse to keep the pickup at the right angle."

The piano player in the crowd has owned a’98 and ‘10 CES, and a ‘07 Wes. I’ve never had a more perfect guitar than any of those Gibsons. Even my previous ‘73 Super 400 played like a dream. So no complaints here.

[Donplaysguitar]

Typical Gibson noise thread. All the Gibson bean counter did was throw you a bone, and you’re off and running with hypothetical’s about this guitar and another. They’ve not built an archtop in what 3-4 years? I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t talk about it, be about it!

I do not believe that they stopped, although this assumption never ceases to be expressed.

[Donplaysguitar]

We've been through this at least 5 times here on JGF. It has been true that they don't show them on their website, and have been sold via "build to suit".


https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Gibson Wes Montgomery Hollowbody Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend

[AllanAllen]

OK, here's what I think is more likely:

L5 and Wes,
Super 400,
LeGrand,

The LeGrand is not an icon, but is more in line with contemporary builds (a cross between the Johnny Smith and L5).

Now, laminates? It's difficult to say. There's so much competition out there.

If they make the Epiphone counterpart I'll be happy. You gotta hook the kids somehow.

[thelostboss]

You have a point. This whole thread could be the result of a test marketing by Gibson to see how much interest there is in new Gibson archtop production.

Personally, my days of buying new Gibson guitars or new Harley Davidson motorcycles are behind me (I have 7 Gibson and 2 Harleys...I think I am set), but I would like to see the venerable American manufacturers continue on for future generations.

Yeah, but you still need a Norton, a Vincent and a Matchless; then you would have top guitars and top motorcycles [ok I will go and hide now]

[Stringswinger]

Yeah, but you still need a Norton, a Vincent and a Matchless; then you would have top guitars and top motorcycles [ok I will go and hide now]

My first motorcycle (way back in the 1970's) was a Norton Commando.....

[Midnight Blues]

Typical Gibson noise thread. All the Gibson bean counter did was throw you a bone, and you’re off and running with hypothetical’s about this guitar and another. They’ve not built an archtop in what 3-4 years? I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t talk about it, be about it!

Are your comments directed at me?

[2bornot2bop]

Are your comments directed at me?

What? Who are you? I don’t recall even reading your comments.